Allrad-LKW-Gemeinschaft

Many appologies for not using german for this question, I am ignorant of the language and would not subject you to a computer translation.

My question is quite simple but also fundermental, which vehicle do the forum recommend for me?

My situation is this:

Family of five, two young boys and a 1 year old girl - we need a crew cab or similar

We want a basic, low technology camper for trips around the UK and Europe to start with. More demanding overland trips will follow.

We do want 4x4, we have had a previous camper truck that was 4x2 and we couldn't get to the sites we wanted and ended up frustrated.

I intend the kabine construction to be something like a LAKII, (I like the look, the price and the practicality)

Fuel consumption is of course a consideration.

My licence allows me to drive up to 7.5 tonne, but I would train for a heavier vehicle if I need to.

Budget of base vehicle ~ 10,000Euro

My choices so far are:

MAN 630 ( I like the looks of this vehicle the best, but I realise it is technologically and ergonomically compromised. It is a heart over head choice, but I have seen it work for other family travellers)

MB 1113 ex fire engine long wheelbase version (within budget universally known, low tech. Not sure about looks, more of a head over heart decision. Currently would feel it is a safe option but wouldn't really love it)

Magrius Iveco 110-17 ( the rarer longwheel base version) Good technologically, slightly flawed aesthetically - for me - probably a good allround choice.


Please give your critique of all three, particularly on their driving experience. It is a personal thing I know and I intend to try each but I'd like some of you expert advice!

Replies will be fine in German as Google tool bar serves me well on your illustrious Forum!

Many thanks!

Ps, what is a translation of "moin" ?

Hello,

the MAN 630 is not available with a crew cab and those vehicles are real veterans now. I would not convert it to a camper because 630s in good condition are really rare.

If you do not like the MB 1113 and similar vehicles, I think only Magirus or Iveco Magirus is an option. The older Magirus like 170 D11 are easily available with crew cabs (fire engines or Agency for Technical Relief "THW").
The Iveco Magirus 110-17 is much more modern and from my point of view the best vehicle you can choose today. Unfortunately the crew cab versions are very rare. They are still in service at the fire brigades and only a few crew cabs were sold from the German army (former driving school vehicles).

"moin" can be translated with "hello". It is mostly used in northern Germany and as I live in southern Germany the word is very uncommon for me, too.

regards,
Christoph

Google tool bar serves me well

dann also los:

Da ein 4x4, wie beschrieben, in Kontinental-Europa nicht ausreichend ist, empfehle ich ein Kettenfahrzeug. Wenn die Reise jedoch noch etwas aufgeschoben werden kann, könntet ihr warten, bis ausreichend Straßen gebaut wurden. Dann müßte es auch möglich sein, Kontinentaleuropa mit einem Radfahrzeug zu befahren.

Noch ein Tip:
Versucht mal auf der anderen Straßenseite zu fahren, wenn ihr auf dem Kontinent angekommen seid. Vielleicht klappts dann auch ohne Allradantrieb.....

Sorry Cruntchy your humor escapes me even with the toolbar to help. ? : (

Thanks Filly.

The Iveco is the most contemporary example , accepted. it's driving experience is significantly better than the MB? Would a long wheelbase allow the mb1113 to be fitted without a rear overhang lakII too much ?

What is the difference in size / wheelbase of the 110-17 and the magrius 170? I do not understand the numbering system of the magrius 170s ...... : (

Is the MAN very unsuitable as a WoMo ? What are it 's biggest draw backs ? It seems the cab cab is one with the radio back style cabin although not as a crew , It allows you to be 'with 'your passengers ?

Ok so I understand moin , mean what does NEN ?

Many thanks.

Hi,

normally the guys at the coastline say "Moin Moin", so simply "moin is an abbreviation. "Moin Moin" that you wisht the other person "mine", so predicting that you are well it means something good.

Why aren't you looking as well for MB 1017 and / or Steyr 12M80?

O'roigt mate,

Sorry Cruntchy your humor escapes me

it's not humor, he just couldn't read (or comprehend) 4X2 .



This is humor that is also loved on the wrong side of the Channel!

If your heart wants the 630 then go for it but don't start moaning that nobody had told you to consider properly .

Jochen

Moin

Yes , take a look of these Mercedes 1017 with crew cab . 1017 Trucks seem to be boring , but tehy are doing a very good job and you will get spare parts everywhrere you travel. Tehre are a several of tehse 1017 at mobile.de these days.

Deutz or Iveco are even good Trucks ( i have a 130D9 Crew Cab ) and tehy also work propely. The only thing taht may get difficult in GB will be getting spare parts. Some parts are not available anymore.

So your best choice maby is one of these 1017 4x4 crew cabs here. They are quite , fule consumption is abou 18 to 20 liters . The Trucks ars already fitet wit a winch an a diff lock on the rear axle and on the distribution gear box.

Take a look :

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showD ... geNumber=3

Sorry ,im to stupid to shorten links


best regards


Oli

Welcome to the forum!

And don't worry about writing in English, most people here understand and some even speak the language.

TimberwolfII hat geschrieben:Magrius Iveco 110-17 ( the rarer longwheel base version) Good technologically, slightly flawed aesthetically - for me - probably a good allround choice.

The 110-17 is indeed a good choice, and if you treat the car to a nice overhaul before travelling plus be good to him while travelling, you'll probably will have lots of fun with him. Spare parts should not be a huge problem yet, since a lot of standard stuff has been used on this model.

Personally, I like the older ones (e.g. 170D11) a bit better for travelling (we own and drive both), but I can still recommend the 110-17.

Of course, a 1017 is not a bad choice either. It all depends on your gut feeling really.

Wilmaaa

Hello TimberwolfII,

this is a Mercedes-Benz 1113 LWB with crew cab (the small one) and a 4-meter-box:

I would not recommend to have a box that is even longer!

This is what you plan to build up: MB 1113 LWB (small) crew cab with a LAKII (4,30 m long IIRC):

The rear overhang is already considerable! Also the box wil be set up very high on the vehicle frame.

In my opinion, the combination of a 1113 crew cab with a big (longer than 4 meters) camper box is not ideal and will have some drawbacks.

Pirx

Sorry Cruntchy your humor escapes me even with the toolbar to help. ? : (

Hi,
Maybe it was not an attempt at humor and just another German that is tired of being reminded that you guys won the war and still like to throw that in there faces every chance you get.
But, don't take my opinion for that. It was just something that came to mind.
I think an offroad camper will always be a compromise of sorts. Since there is not one vehicle that can combine all things. If you like old rigs like the Emma you will have to accept slow speed and less comfort and be prepared to spend lots of time looking for parts since they are not common and ready available. I think if you go with a newer truck you will spend more money up front, but reap the benefit in having more time for travel instead of wrenching and getting ready for the trip.
Good luck with the search, Swen.

Pirx hat geschrieben:Hello TimberwolfII,
------snipped-----
In my opinion, the combination of a 1113 crew cab with a big (longer than 4 meters) camper box is not ideal and will have some drawbacks.

Pirx

Hi Timberwolf,
you know who's telling you to choose a shorter Vehicle? :-)))





Verzeih mir, Pirx, aber das war ne Steilvorlage, die musste ich verwandeln. Nicht bös sein...
Gruß Alex.

Thank you all for your opinions, I will delve into the MB 1017 idea a bit further, anything to drive out the MAN 630 demon that is tapping me on my shoulder..... It's my kids favourite too - " it looks like a proper army truck...." If they are multifuel engines does that mean they are good to go on veg oil? Could tip the balance on the consumption question. What does a 630 do 20-25l/100km? ( I need to convert that to MPG so I can understand!)

Would Steyr will be too rare in UK for spares and service (and a MAN 630 won't? )

I'm bewildered that my first post might have been misconstrued into something about the war??? We had a 4x2 truck in new zealand and it got stuck on wet grass, all the wild camping we did was down dirt roads (~50% in NZ are dirt) so we were always compromised on where we could go or camp. I want this UK/ europe machine as a 90% road vehicle but with that 10% offroad ability. I drive a toyota hilux daily and wouldn't be without the diff locks etc, we live in the lake district and i wasn't out of 4x4 mode all last winter....-22 degrees some days. Also, I've even seen campers having problems on ferry ramps because of departure angles etc. So it has to be a 4x4...

Pirx and rumpelsteilzchen (great handle - I had a VW beetle I called rumblesteelskin!) I do like the 1113's and all kurzhauber's (?), but know little of how they drive? Later ones came with servo steering etc? How are they for the hills? Is their a version with the long crewcab and a long enough chassis so there isn't a massive rear overhang?

Thanks guys - Keep the arguements coming!

So what about NEN then?

So what about NEN then?

Ich habe (ei)nen Laster.
I have a truck.
That might be the "nen" you where asking about. Just a slang version. Which translates to "a" or "an".
Hope that helps.

Well, regarding Mercedes I can't really tell you, never took the chance to drive one. Mine's a Magirus, really short one with a 4 meter Box on it. After travelling a few with it, I'm missing a little bigger cabin, so a double cab would have been the better choice for me. So don't buy toooo short, might have drawbacks at the other hand... ;-)

I'm also limited to 7,5 tons but am really considering of changing that, the variety of trucks grows a lot beyound that limit!

Difficult question you posted! Best idea would be to go to a convention (like Saverne next weekend) and have a look at some vehicles and some talks with the drivers.

Best regards,
Alex.

Hello Timberwolf and welcome to this crazy place!

As far as I remember it's possible to get a rear 3 place bench for the kind of cabin that my own MB (see my avatar) has. I remember another memeber of this forum that defenately had such one in his truck for his 3 kids...so it should be possible to get 6 persons in this type of cabin, but the space in the rear is quite limited and only comfortable for (small) kids...

good luck!

all(r)addin

TimberwolfII hat geschrieben:Pirx and rumpelsteilzchen (great handle - I had a VW beetle I called rumblesteelskin!) I do like the 1113's and all kurzhauber's (?), but know little of how they drive? Later ones came with servo steering etc? How are they for the hills? Is their a version with the long crewcab and a long enough chassis so there isn't a massive rear overhang?

Hey,

that's not fair! You know, I'm a fan of kurzhaubers! And now you want me to tell you the disadvantages of that beautiful trucks?

Hmmmmm ............. OK!

How they drive: loud, slow, uncomfortabel - in one word: great!

Servo steering: this has nothing to do with the year of construction. You may find very old trucks with power steering and you might also find very late kurzhaubers without it. I recommend to buy one that is already equipped with it - steerings to convert the truck after buying it are hard to find and it is definitely more fun having power steering.

How are they for the hills: a 1113 crew cab will in 90% be a former fire department vehicle. This means, there is already one of the more powerful turbocharged engines installed (150 hp, 156 hp or 168 hp). But even with 168 hp you can't beat a modern 500hp-16gears-plastic truck in the hills - except when my wife is driving us home with the 911 (don't know how she manages that) ...

Long crew cab and chassis: The longest wheelbase for the 4x4 models was 4,20 m, this is what I have shown in the 2 pictures above. But you could take that chassis and make it longer by yourself, like others did:
http://www.offroadtrucks-austria.com/gregor%209111.html

Pirx

HI,

we have a Steyr 680MF and we are Travelling with 5 Persons. Three Kids (aged 10 8 and 4)

Here are some Picture from our Steyr 680 MF (Crewcab)
Compared with the Steyr 680


Compared with an 1617 with Nato Shelter





Look at the other link. Thats like the Steyr would look like with a LAK II

http://www.offroadtrucks-austria.com/eric1.html

Good look for the right selection

Grüße

Gerold

[/img]

Besides,

if you are REALLY interested in a MAN 630, you should also have a look at that homepage:
http://www.man630.de/

There is a forum, where sometimes they sell a 630 ...

You will also find almost every handbook or workshop manual for the MAN 630 - in german, of course, but with a lot of pictures and illustrations:
http://www.tdv2320-011.de/start.html

Pirx

Thank you ! thank you.... hadn't seen the Austrian site before. surprising how short the 1113 is when the feurwehr back is removed! And amazing how loooooong that extended on is!

Two great 630 sites, I had been before but useful to visit again and now in favourites.

It will be a difficult dilemma. I need to find a friendly 630 owner in UK. I know a MB 917 (very close), and a 110-17 doka (but far away) that leaves the 1113....

Unfortunately the steyr isn't doing it for me just a matter of taste, I'm sure they're great trucks but.......

Back to mobile.de!!

Hi

If you are really interested in a MAN 630 you can may be ask here
www.man-on-tour.de. I know that they will sell the MAN.

best regards
BIC-MAG

Hi Timberwolf,
heard of the lake district and couldn´t locate it, auntie Google helped.
Did you stumble upon http://www.magirusdeutz.co.uk/MD8worldmaggies.htm ? There you can see (scroll down) Andreas (Muskolus here) Crew cab. Perhaps Roland, the site owner can guide you to a Maggie up there?

One thing that perhaps went off your mind... I don´t know about one RHD Emma (MAN 630). Would you like to drive permanently on the "wrong" side of the lane?
So what about a british crew cab? It seems to be quite rare...

A long crew cab is not necessary (unless your family planning isn´t completed yet ). And in my opinion, the Kurzhauber (short nose) with the LAK looks like it has less rear overhang (sorry Pirx!). At least it has a better rear ramp angle.

One thing more: multi-fuel means anything from kerosene to petrol-diesel mix (in german it is called Fehlbetankungssprit - filled on the wrong filling pump). Veg oil can only (=healthily!) digested when it is properly preheated to about 70°C.

Kind regards
Härry

P.S. English speakers can use Harry, `cause they pronounce it in the right way.

hi Timberwolf...

as i´m a very proud mercedes owner (and owner of a very small collection of mercedes-stars which I harvested earlier in my life when i thought I´m somehow political interested... )

i recommend the MB 1017 crew cab as postet by landwerk.

i think this working guy will meet all your wishes...including older but working mechanics...if your heart is in oldtimers you should keep the newer MB 1113 in mind...
as i had some deeper "insights" in this car:



5 people?

perfect.

is not for sale, but easy to copy...


grüsse roman

Finally cracked mobile.de ' s search facility! ...... I am so slow

this turned up : See below ( did not do the image embed till too late! )




Does this have a Magrius engine? DOKA , check. Long wheelbase , check. looks ok , check ...... even the right color !

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showD ... uck&siteId = GERMANY & negativeFeatures = EXPORT & damageUnrepaired NO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED = & export = NO_EXPORT grossPrice = false & & = & customerIdsAsString wheel Formula = WHEEL_DRIVE_4x4 & tabNumber = 1

Any negative points on these vehicles ?

[ img ] http://i.ebayimg.com/10/!!sQ+-LQ!W0 ~ $ ( KGrHqN IKEv1 ! +0 E4, CBMB3 ( fE (Sg ~ ~ _19.JPG [/ img ]

and this would keep everyone guessing!

http://i.ebayimg.com/23/!!pbWqPQBm0~$(K ... Q~~_19.JPG

TimberwolfII hat geschrieben:Does this have a Magrius engine?

Magirus did never build engines. They always used Deutz engines, compare to the name "Magirus-Deutz".
After Iveco bought Magirus the Deutz engines were still used for a few years.
The Iveco 160-23 has an aircooled Deutz engine. I think it is a 8 cylinder V-engine, 4-stroke Diesel without turbo. Piston displacement about 12 L with 230 hp.
This car looks like it is from municipal service. Be careful: If it was used in winter as snowplow with salt scatterer there will a a lot of rust everywhere.

...

Christoph was a bit faster.

The engine should be a V-8 air cooled Deutz Diesel engine.

Any negative points on these vehicles?

Since it has the front mounting plate there is a good chance it was used for snow removal. With that said it could have a lot of corrosion due to the use of a salt spreader on the rear. I guess one would have to look at the truck and see if there are any rost issues. If you use the search in the forum look for Werner's 2031 and you can see the damage that can be caused when used as a salt truck.

Welcome here in the heavy metal forum :-). The Mercedes Kurzhauber are a good choice. I had an 911 Ex fire-engine with the Crew Cab and 9 seats.

I love the UK and have been there several times. Last time I brought two Landrover Series with me. Really good vehicles. I love them. Regarding the most roads in the UK I would think twice to drive there with a vehicle like a Kurzhauber. We thought about going to Wales this year with our Magirus - but then we decided to go to France. Maybe next year. Good luck and I hope you find the right vehicule for your purpose.

Captain T

Roman 911 That 1113 looks nice!

Captain T - the south of England would be a real test to use an old vehicle, it's a hell hole down there! Up here the main traffic jams are caused by sheep and cows! I would only go east or north from here exploring.

I haven't seen a 1113 with a short doka AND a long wheelbase chassis yet - do they exist?

It was interesting looking at all the fuel consumption figures elsewhere on this site, makes the 1113 an interesting prospect when considering cost of travelling. Also puts the 'Emma' at 27l/100km in perspective...

Searched but couldn't find a thread about rust damage by Werner?

I would have to accept LHD on any german import daddyharry (sorry can't find an umlaut) it wouldn't be an issue, I'd never have to overtake anything! I've driven most things in my time, you soon adapt. It would make trips abroad easier too!!

Is there a way on Mobile.de to search for 4x4 trucks with a doka? I can do any make 4x4 but most are single cab, I like trawling but it is time consuming.....

Hier are two links to different threads about trucks which where used as salt trucks.

der erste ist der von Werner.
http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... hp?t=18947

und dieser thread is just a recent one.

http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... t=kommunal

Hope it helps.

TimberwolfII hat geschrieben:I haven't seen a 1113 with a short doka AND a long wheelbase chassis yet - do they exist?

Yes, they do! Like ours ...
http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... php?t=4201

In fact the combination of short crew cab and long wheelbase (4,20 m) is very rare. You will find:
1) LA1113B as a so called GKW (Gerätekraftwagen) from THW
2) LAF1113(B) as a fire engine "Schlauchwagen SW2000" (hose tender with 2000 m of fire hose)
3) LAF1113(B) as a fire engine "Trocken-Tanklöschfahrzeug TroTLF16" (water and powder tender)

No. 1 is no problem to find, there are many of it. Always with a (heavy) winch, but sometimes not in the best condition.
You can get them there, that is where the traders buy them, too:
https://www.vebeg.de/web/en/start/index.htm
looks like that

No. 2 is hard to find, but a good choice, because there is no water tank, water pump or winch to remove. There are versions with a single cab, too. Last year, I saw 3 or 4 for sale in mobile.de or ebay.de.
this is ours

No. 3 is almost impossible to find. These trucks are very very rare.
looks like that

Pirx

Hello and Welcome in the Heavy Metal Party.

MAN 630 has disadvantages, the bigest one: it looks great.

Unfortunately its build in a decade when material was not a question so they grinded it out of a massive block of steel. Means: its realy heavy and slow.
MB 1017 is a reasonable Car not too heavy, driving like a PKW
not very loud in the cab, low fuel consumption...

Just as idea, what about the reynolds RB44 perhaps You can easy get it in the UK including spare parts?

Gruss ALF