Are the ABC-protecting containers from DDR good for camper?

[groentas]

I'm offered an MB 911A with a hut made from 2 ABC-protecting container from East Germany.


According to the seller the container is dust-tight, very durable and do not rust to pieces as the original koffer.

My first reaction when I saw an ad for a car with such a container, was that the sloping walls steals a lot of (storage) space.
Seller believes it has its advantages too.
Passing through tunnels, etc. are also much easier with the lower corners.
Shelves near the ceiling often make the room seem small.
The container is sparsely decorated, as the seller said it works quite spacious.


The car is relatively heavy, so I have to work a bit to get it under 7 tons.
But then I get a camper with hot water, shower, room for lots of water and diesel and a large alcove.
Does this seem as a sensible purchase for 140 000 NOK (about 17 500 Euro)?
Due to norwegian taxes, the price will have to be about 13 500 euros in Germany to match it.

PS! The car needs a new shaft between gearbox and front axle.
This will involve a some additional cost.
Indicates this that the owner has been driving on asphalt with the front-wheel drive engaged?
The car is from 1965, so it is not new.
I think it's had about 150 000 km.

[Christian H]

the nicest things i see inside are heaviest

You have to decide Nice or heavy


Christian

[Caruso]

I don´t think theres a chance geting him under 7 t.

C.

[groentas]

I could make it about 200kg lighter by
Replacing he Kitchen Countertops (5cm thick)
Lighter interior furniture
Removing one of the diesel-tanks. 400l is more than enough for my plans
Replacing/removing a box across under the container. Contains an emergency generator
Replacing two 11kg gas bottles of steel. Glassfiber is lighter, but not good in winter

[Caruso]

How much does it weigh now?

C.

[groentas]

The seller weighted it some years ago, and it was 7.2 ton.
That was not with full tanks, and I don't kow what changes he has made afterwards.

I would of course also replase the steel staircase at the rear with
aluminium.

My goal is not to never get above 7.5ton, but to normally be under the limit while in civilized areas.
When I cross the interior of Iceland, there's nobody to weight the car.

I would like some comments about the koffer too, if possible, not only the weight.
Will I damn the sloping walls, or will I love the double-glass windows, big roof-hatches and Africa-protection (doors with prison locks, bars on the windows)?

[jonson]

I was living for 4 years in a LAK Container. It,s perfekt. I woud not change anything on this Container. Use it like it is. I feel just the price is a littel bit high for a old Truck like this. I would say around 11000.- in Germany..Not more.

[Vario 815 DA]

Hey groentas,

I like the LAK in that way, its an heavy duty construction.
But the car below should have three wind-screen wipers,
you know what I mean?

greetings from me

[osterlitz]

Hi,
the LAK ist not a bad choice if you can live with the ceiling height and the cut corners. The corners are not that bad as long as you can stand upright in the middle.

The new shaft has little to do with 4x4 on roads AFAIK, that should wreck the gears or the inner axles, not the shaft. This usually comes from missing lubrication.

Stefan

[groentas]

I would prefere a B-series with higher front window and rear difflock if I found one.
But since I'll never get time to convert to a camper myselfe, I want one which is almost ready to go.
It's not so easy to find one within reasonable price, and so far I think this is the best I've found.
I suppose the roof and not only the window is higher on the B-series.
That means that an alcove will have to be lower or the cars total high even higher.
Unless I use a popup roof, of course.

To reduce the weight as much as 200kg, the seller sugests that I remove the spare tyre.
I'm sceptic about that, due to Murphys (and others) laws.
I would then have to bring tyre repaire equipment and foam box.
An alternative could be to have aluminium rim(s).

Are there parabolic springs for these cars?
That would increase ride comfort and offroad capability and reduce the weight.
I've done that change on a serial LR 109, it became another car.

Regarding price, there is an MB 710 for sale in Germany for the same price.
http://tinyurl.com/3nujqg7
Car-prices are generally much higher in Norway than Germany.
If I import one, I'll have to pay 25% tax for the car and for the transportation to Norway.
In adition there's registation fee, which is 600E for an oldtimer.
If it's made before 1981, the fee will be 8000E, or even higher if it's newer
BTW, I pay for the koffer to, not only the car.

[BIC-MAG]

Hey groentas,

To reduce the weight cut off the bullbar (~50-100kg) and make some new light furniture. With that you loose easily the 200kg and you don't take off the performance possibilities.
I general make sure that the truck is technally in good condition all the other things can be more less "cheap" fixed.

I like the look with the alkoven with the LAK and it matchesc nicely

Let us know how the story is going on

BIC-MAG

[Veit M]

If I see the furniture inside I expect this is very heavy stuff.
Especially if something is made from press board this will be heavy.
Better use e.g. plywood.

Keep the spare tyre, you never know if a tyre patch will do the work and forget tyre foam (this guck out of the bottle), this will not work.

Best is to go with the truck (as it is actually) to a balance and check the weight. After this you will know how much weight you have to save.

Have fun

Veit

[Dieselsurfer]

strange position of the rear wheels

[groentas]

strange position of the rear wheels

The length of the car is 7m to avoid ferry taxes.
That means that it's cut of a few dm at the rear.

In adition the rear axle is long, there has newer been twin wheels there.

[Dieselsurfer]

ah, alright. That's very rare. Usually it's even with the original single- wheeled rear axles, that the wheels are turned. Compared the the front axle. Nice truck, I like the style, especially of the inside.

[groentas]

Here's how it looks with sofa and table.

The picture is taken with a sidehatch open.

The seller wants to keep the sofa, so I'll definitely have to make/find my own.
I'm in doubt wether I shall put it in the same place or on the other side.
My idea is to extend the kitchen and have seats and table on the other side.
Along the wall I'll put a folded bed.
In this way I can get some distance to our daughter which makes a lot of noise and moves a lot while sleeping.

It will of course be some job to make these changes.
But almost all things are easy to move, fixed with srews to the wall.
What I can't move is the bath and kitchen.
The latter has watertank and gas bottles, hot water and refrigerator, all encapsulated with glassfiber to prevent tsunami.


What's inside the closet, where I'm thinking about having the bed:


The entrance:

[groentas]

I'm plannng to take a visit of the car next weekend.
It's 3 hours to drive each way, so I don't want to do it again befor I make up my mind.
Is there anything special I should look for to check the technical?
I have equipment for making oil analysis showing wear and damages.
Will it be smart to take that form the engine? Gearboxes?

I have never driven a truck like this before.
Thus I don't know what's normal behaviour.
Will it have any special behaviour which is normal for these cars?

[Baloo]

very authentic car - looks very nice

[groentas]

New signature, and at last an avatar.

[Udo (DL 8 WP)]

Hi Groentas,

this car, first of all, is kind of unique.

I think you should be aware that the truck is an old A Model and that spare parts are getting harder to find.
Further on it depends, which engine it has, I would go for at least an OM 352 with 130 HP, better the OM 352 A turboloaded with 168 / 170 HP.
For the base car I would prefere the B model.

If you also want to use the car in Norway during winter you need extreme isolation, winter prrof water and wastewater tanks. The windows dont seem to be doble glass windows (?) .

If I look at the alkoven, I see some things to think about:

The a model probaly has the 100 or 110HP engine. The big alkoven put a lot of area aginst the wind ... (high fuel consumption). Furter on I am not sure if the alkoven will not collide with the drivers cab in rough terrain. How much "headroom clearance" do you still have in the alkoven, when you put in a good matrace ? ... and want to make love with your wife ... ? (I am asking these dum questions because I have been driving a big alkoven RV for the last 17 years befor the 911...)

Did you go to look at the car this weekend ?

I bought myself a 911 from the German police at an auction about 1 year ago.

You can see most of the details here:

http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... hp?t=22121

It is a 911 B model, ~ 70.000kms, 130 HP single wheels, long axles (runs roughly 100 km/h) diff.- lock on rear axle and a has (water) heating system in the cabin. It was a radio car at the time when uses at the police.

But the cabin would not be good for winter use in Norway at all.
This car weights, as you see it, ~ 6000 kgs.

Best regards,

Udo (DL 8 WP)

[groentas]

It's still 6 days until I'll take the trip to see the car toghether with our daughter.

According to the seller the LAK has double windows since it has been for offisers.
It's not so easy to see on the pictures, I think this one shows best.


The car itself has been for officers to.
Thus it has some original soundproofing and the electrical units are prepared for wading (1.2m?)
The latter might be useful on Iceland, but I hope I'll not need it.
I don't know if it will still be waterproof either after all these years.
Some layers with clear rubber paint might help.

The water tank is on the outer wall, inside the kitchen Bench.
You can see a picture of it over, the hatch is quite big.
To be guaranteed about freezing I'll have to put an electrical heating elemt into it.
But I don't think it'll be any big problem, at least not as long as I live in the car and have above 0C inside.

The seller says he replaced all sim rings (ordered from South Africa) after buying it.
Thus there should not be any oil leakages at all.

As far as I've understood, upgrading from 110 to 130HP should just be to adjust the diesel pump.
Exchanging the mechanical radiator fan with an electrical should give a few more HP.
I'm more conerned by the big distance between 4. and 5. gear, making speed very low if road to steep for 5.

The alcove is about 60cm high.
That's what I've read as recommended as minimum above the madras.
That's some of the reason I might want to make bed for us 'downstears', while our daughter will use the alcove.

I'v been told that the 1017 and other newer cars are much better to drive.
Thus I've started investigating / looking at theese cars to.
Any comments about that, except weight?

[Udo (DL 8 WP)]

Hello Groentas,

thanks for the explanations and other details.

First of all, I doubt that the base car (911) has been "as it is" in duty in the former DDR to be used by officers. DDR has been socialist and probably would have never ever bought a Mercedes Benz for their Army... (Russian Kamaz, UAZ or IFA would have been more probable in my opinion...) but that does not really matter for you.

The shelter seems to be fixed with container locks and should be easily removable to another base vehicle (?).

The 911 is a "so and so" car in my opinion. It is loud, not too fast, but it has something - the "smile in the face"- which no other car has. Either you like it or you dont... Newer 1017 or alike are certainly "better" in much senses. But a 911 you can repair yourself, lets say 90 %, with a big tool box.

To the engine: Replacing the front simmer ring and on the transmissions / differentials is not the real big issue. Much more critical is the sealing between the engine and the clutch (in German Borgmannring). Have a good look that this sealing is OK, as you will have to take out the crankshaft to do this job properly (not only the oil pan).

Upgrading from 110 HP to 130 HP according to my knowledge takes a different injection pump with bigger pistons and may be different injectors (?). This only can be done on the OM 352 engine, not on the older ("Vorkammer") engine which had no direct injection. Your engine looks to be a 352 , but I can not see which version.

To the gearcase: Yes, there is a "gap" between 4th and 5th gear, this is right. If you lose momentum in 5th on a long flat or steep hill, you will creep up with ~ 50 km / h or so, depending on how much you are willing to make the engine suffer at high RPMs.
In real life on German highways for me that was not a real problem - but I only have roughly 4000 km experience on my 911.

I have been on a 4 x4 "playground" (Saverne) last year and what this car can do is absolutely impressive.

You must be aware, that you are driving a kind of an oldtimer and treat the car accordingly. If that is "yours", then you will get happy with it. If not, look for something modern.

Anyhow, you will have to do some noise sheielding jobs in the cabin - it is pretty loud while driving 80 - 90 km/h....

Hope you will have fun looking at the car.

Ask how much oil it eats and look at the air compressor (for thr brakes) and the condition of the wheel brake cylinders and the master brake cylinder.

I have been searching for over 2 years to find mine in acceptable good condition and for an affordable price.

There is much junk around.

On one of the pictures I have seen some rust on the edge of the right wheelcase. The wheelcases semmingly have been cut out not very professionally (the circle seems not perfectly round) in order to fit in the big wheels.
Look what axles are in the car. For me it is an absolutely "no go" if the truck can not swim along with modern trucks on a flat highway. 95 km/ h in my opinion is a must.

Forgot to say: The front window for the A type 911 is not available any more from Mercedes.
The rims which are on the car might tend to break. There is another thread about this here.

http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... elgenbruch

You mentioned you want to go to iceland - so you better take 2 spare tires there. Going without one at all is probably not a good idea. We have a story here in the forum where stones have cut some tires an he had to fly in spares...

Best regards,

Udo (DL 8 WP)

[groentas]

Hello Groentas,
First of all, I doubt that the base car (911) has been "as it is" in duty in the former DDR to be used by officers.

Thanks Udo.
As far as I've understood the seller, the car was used in BDR while the LAKs where used in DDR.
He used two LAKs to make the koffer with alcove.
Excessive glassfiber was used to make bath and kitcken bench.
I supose that's some of the reason why it's so heavy.

The shelter seems to be fixed with container locks and should be easily removable to another base vehicle (?).

Yes, there should be no problem to remove the koffer.
It could fit on a B series, but not on newer trucks due to the alcove.

To the engine: Replacing the front simmer ring and on the transmissions / differentials is not the real big issue. Much more critical is the sealing between the engine and the clutch (in German Borgmannring).

He sais he had the engine out to do the replacement.
If it had been me, I would have put some noice redusing paint at the same time.

Upgrading from 110 HP to 130 HP according to my knowledge takes a different injection pump with bigger pistons and may be different injectors (?).

When reading again, I see that.
The car is made in 1965 and registered 1967, and has direct injection.

Anyhow, you will have to do some noise sheielding jobs in the cabin - it is pretty loud while driving 80 - 90 km/h....

I know.
I'll remove any rust, apply a good ship painting (Jotun jotamastic), rubberpaint and finaly noice-killing paint (Noxudol 3100).
Thus I should not get roblems with rust for many years.

Look what axles are in the car. For me it is an absolutely "no go" if the truck can not swim along with modern trucks on a flat highway. 95 km/ h in my opinion is a must.

In Norway I'm not allowed to drive in more than 80.
I suppose faster axles will mean that I'll have to use 4th gear more often due to less moment.
On the other hand the speed in 4th gear will be higher, so I'm not sure what's best.

[Udo (DL 8 WP)]

Hi Groentas,

have you seen this ?

http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... hp?t=29579

May be one of the shafts might fit ?

Best regards,

Udo (DL 8 WP)

[Hatzlibutzli]

Hi Groentas,

I am sure you know allready the pages of Pirx
http://kurzhauber.allrad-lkw.eu/ ....
there is everything one should know, before buying a Rundhauber ...

the car looks nice .... the price for a fit for travel Rundhauber A-Model for german means not too cheap ... considering your import fees ok.

the long axles should give you a ride @ 80 km/h with about 2000 rpm instead of ear damaging and fuelintensive 2850 rpm.

One thing maybe for the last: ask for the past life of the car .... if the 120 000 km were made on trips to Goa and/or Capetown an back count the rough parts of it times 8 .... as its used to estimate the wearing down ....

Greetings ... Simon

[groentas]

Hi Groentas,

have you seen this ?
http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... hp?t=29579
(DL 8 WP)

Thanks, Udo, but ther has been an misunderstanding between me and the seller.
It's the shaft between diff and right frontwheel which is broken.
That's due to changing to bigger and better brakes and mounting a welded shaft afterwards.

The truck has not been driven trough Sahara.
The long trips were in southern Europe, while the last years has been mostly short trips.

[Baloo]

Hello Groentas;

I still think that this ist a very beautiful car. I especially like the alcove, the wooden interior, the rare outside-out-rear-axle-design and the very harmonic overall appearance.

Anyway I am in doubt of the price which seems very high for a A-Model in medium condition having some technical trouble.

You should not be worried about the rims, which are clearly different from the old Mercedes-Kronprinz-single-rims mentioned by Udo

The rims which are on the car might tend to break. There is another thread about this here.

http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/p ... elgenbruch

which have much narrower spokes and a very different design with a characteristic beading. Your rims rather look similar to the Magirus-rims also shown in the linked discussion from which no problems are known.

Cheers, Peter

[Pirx]

the long axles should give you a ride @ 80 km/h with about 2000 rpm instead of ear damaging and fuelintensive 2850 rpm.

I don't think so ...

Pirx

[groentas]

According to the owner, max speed is about 90km/h with 12R20 tires.
That does not suite with Petermanns well of information.
Is there any way I can determine which axles there is?
Any signs or something else I can check?
The best might be to compare GPs speed with RPM.
But there might not be so easy to meassure RPM.

BTW, I've wondered why what I understand has to be fast axles has been translated to long axles.
Now I think I know why, thats because you call the fast axles for long axles.
I suppose that's because the car goes a longer(er) distance per RPM.
Reason for confusion, I think.

[Dieselsurfer]

for getting the ratio of the axles, you have to look on the topside of the differential casing. There are some numbers engraved. eg 42 / 12. But right now I don't have the right ratios in mind...