MAN TGM 13.290 Flame Start / Atacama Desert

[DavidQ]

Hello Friends. For the first time in our six year overland trip we have gone HIGH and COLD. Typically >4000m and < 12°c overnight.

Problem: I'm having to wait until midday (5°c) before my engine will start.

Question: My engine has Flame Start. The Flame Start does not behave as per manual (Pre Glow check lamp, then after short delay, Start Engine message). I have no indications. What temperature does flame start activate please?

In the meantime, I am looking for a diesel additive to help diesel flow.

Thank you

David

[felix]

Hi David,

I'm not the MAN expert, others might know the flame start.

But any additive will just save the diesel from freezing, once the diesel is frozen no additive will liquidate it; the diesel will remain frozen regadless what you pour into. The only thing that reliably unfrezes diesel is fire or a night inside a heated bulding. If available a barbecue placed under the fuel tank with wind shield around is a good option, because charcoal burns without flames and is therefore more controllable. Or you cut open a metal canister, put diesel and an old T-shirt into, set it on fire and place it under the fuel tank.

Good luck
Felix

[DavidQ]

Thank you Felix. I have now started engine. After weather warmed up.

But we will go to Bolivia next. HIGHER and COLDER. So I wil buy additive in preparation.

I would like to know what temperature my Flame Start should activate. I don't know if I have a technical fault or the temperature must be lower than what I have experienced (-12°c).

David

[felix]

Hi David,

on my old Deutz the flame start just had a (long) timer (1 min or so) to preheat the flame throwers and then a valve opens fuel supply so the fuel gets pumped to the throwers while engine start. The timer got activated manually (start button pulled halve way) so no temperature sensor or anything.

Test 1: The glow plugs / flame throwers get seriously hot when preheating, don’t touch them directly, walk your fingers slowly along the inlet manifold towards the glow plugs until you properly feel the heat.

Test 2: open the fuel line towards the glow plugs/injectors: when they are preheated properly there should diesel start flowing the moment you starter is cranking the engine and you fuel pump builds up pressure.

I don’t recommend to remove the injectors from the manifold to observe the flames because the flame tends to be approx 1,5m long. This makes obversation rather easy but might command some subsequent actions to suppress the resulting fire under the truck. Guess how I found out…

Good luck
Felix

[lura]

I start all my trucks with flame start till -5°C without flaming Doesn`t it work in more than 3000 m? they make a little white smoke, but after seconds engine runs good
Im the user manual of my MAN M90 i can read, the flame preparing start automatically below 5°C showed by the bkinking control lamp. When the control lamp is pemanent on, You can start the engine including flame start.The time for preparation the flame start could need a minute or more in relation to the temperature outside. But it is a MAN M90-

[DavidQ]

Hi Lura,

My dashboard does not indicate that it has initiated flame start.

What I'm really trying to find out is:

For a TGM 13.290, what temperatures / altitudes is flame start initiated?

There is no point me fault finding until I know there is a fault. Perhaps the ECU does not command flame start until -20°C.

Dave

[Ulf H]

... watch how the lokals do ...

Gruss Ulf

[hugepanic]

...

There is no point me fault finding until I know there is a fault. Perhaps the ECU does not command flame start until -20°C.

Dave

That's not entirely true.

Maybe you simply have a busted glow-plug (or whatever is used in your vehicle) and this failure is not reported via the indicator on the dashboard!

I had a similar error! there was voltage on the glow plug, but not current as result --> the glowplug was damaged

So with some trial-and-error you could baybe narrow it down. This might be quicker than searching for hours in the internet for a theoretical answer to your questions.
Depending on your vehicle and you equipment & skills, you could maybe force the Flame-Start to work, despite beeing out of "normal" operation parameters.

[Wombi]

Do you use aditive against the themperature .... if not ..... thats the one and only problem ........
Bad diesel and cold ....

Wombi

[RainerKraft]

Hi David,

We have been Bolivia/ Altiplano recently.

What helped for our Old motor (1980 - even no glow plugs) - we added 5 Percent Gasoleum to the Diesel. (We did get additive - but later).

Highest peak for sleeping was 4500m at approx -10 Degrees, we were able to start around 10:00 after letting a little bit sun on the motor / tank. Parking in the evening already in right direction, open bonnet, recommended. Did not try earlier.

We had the mixture in Tank 1 and pure diesel in tank 2 (used during daytime).

Diesel starting to seperate - in a jerry can.

Maybe this works also for you. We were able to get a bottle additive in Tupiza after checking several shops - still originally sealed…

Br Rainer and Sandra

[Wombi]

No Gasoleum to this engine !!!!!!!!!


Wombi

[LutzB]

Even at the risk of being considered ignorant: what is gasoleum?
Mineral spirits/light petrol?

Lutz

[Bahnhofs-Emma]

Hi,

I guess that just points to "Benzin". Some Diesel engines don't like the mixture of diesel and petrol.

Best regards
Marcus

[LutzB]

In the 80s it was absolutely usual to add 5% regular gasoline to diesel in winter.

Lutz

[DavidQ]

Thank you All

Unfortunately I now have a much bigger problem. My transfer case failed yesterday in the middle of nowhere. I disconnected the propshafts and the police towed us to the nearest town (village) where we are now stranded.

As we say in the UK, when it rains, it pours.

Re flame start - I checked fuse (ok) and I removed and checked relay (ok). The ambient temperature display on the dashboard shows correct temp. I will next put my finger on the relay and see if I can feel it operate in a cold temperature. I will measure glowplug resistance. I will measure fuel solenoid resistance.

I guess I have time to kill... I'm not going anywhere anytime soon.

David

[lura]

Oh no, that aren't good news. What happens? Do You know what's wrong?

[DavidQ]

Hi lura,

I don't know how it failed (but no, I did not hit a rock!)

Here are some pictures.

Dave

[DavidQ]

That's not entirely true.

Maybe you simply have a busted glow-plug (or whatever is used in your vehicle) and this failure is not reported via the indicator on the dashboard!

If I had a busted glow plug the ECU would throw error 03402 (Glow plug current). The feed to the glow plug goes through an ECU current sense circuit.

Dave