Hinterachse wird Vorderachse

[oroedel]

Hab nen F350 auf F4000 umgebaut (Fahrgestell verlängert Gesamtgewicht aufgestockt) und will den auf 4x4 umrüsten.
Die F4000/F350 gab es original 4x4 aber nur in den neueren Modellen und einigen Militärfahrzeugen,
Mein F350 ist Baujahr 1968 (Brasilien).
Um den nun auf F4000 4x4 umzubauen brauche ich nen Schrott F4000 und die sind sehr teuer (hier in Brasilien macht man aus Schrott und nem geklauten Fahrzeug ein Wunder, der Schrott wird neu über Nacht. Cabrito (Ziege) nennt man das. Also sieht man Schrott zu unsinnigen Preisen.
Viel geschwätzt, hab nen Video gefunden wo der Besitzer einer F250 Hinterradantrieb diese auf 4x4 umbauen will und dazu kaufte er sich ein Dana/Spicer 46 Difernzial mit Achse. Findet man billig, der hat dann alles in viele Teile zerschnitten und wieder zusammengeschweisst. Also aus einer Hinterachse macht der ne Vorderachse.
Naja nicht so einfach, aber so ungefähr.
Sieht interessant aus. Hat sowas schonmal jemand hier gemacht?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itVdAulHJL4[/youtube]

[lura]

Das Problem wird die Achsschenkellagerung bzw deren Haltbarkeit sein. Die Achsschenkel müssen je einiges aushalten.

[Ulf H]

... in Deutschland sind Teile in der Regel gut und günstig zu bekommen ... Arbeit ist teuer ... und vor allem muss alles, was auf der Strasse rllt durch eine technische Prüfung, landläufig TÜV genannt ... wegen dieser sehr anders gelagerten Situation sind solche Umbauten in Deutschland sehr selten ...

... in Russland habe ich einiges gesehen, was in diese Richtung geht ...

Gruss Ulf

[buckdanny]

hab jetzt nur den Anfang gesehen, aber im Video wird ne Vorderachse benutzt!

Grundsätzlich zu Thema, wenn man wirklich ne HA nehmen möchte, woher Gelenkwellen, Achsschenkel, Nabe und und die Achsfaust(im Video, die Enden der Achse), Orginal ist das Differential bei einer VA aus der Mitte, die Getriebe von 4x2 und 4x4 sind unterschiedlich ausgeführt

[itchi]

Ich hab das zwar nicht schon selbst gemacht :-o aber hab zuhause sowas rumstehen bzw. im Einsatz als Familienkutsche..
Die Firma Pathfinder in den USA haben in den 80er und 90er Jahren 2WD VAN's auf Allrad umgebaut.

In meinem Fall handelt es sich um einen Dodge B350 bei welchem eine GM Dana44 Vorderachse eingebaut wurde.
Der Allrad ist zuschaltbar über ein BorgWarner Verteilergetriebe.

Quelle: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/thre ... ion.72750/ // Pathfinder Equipment Company closed in 1991 or 92 but I am not sure just what happened to them but the late 80s were the start of a bit of a recession so maybe that was the problem. The had at least two locations one in City of Industry ,CA and the others in Indiana?and ? (this was during the big Van Craze of the 70-80's so they grew fast) information about the company is a bit hard to find but they only did conversions much the way Quigley (which by the way started about the same time) does today, only brand new vans and they did not sell kits. At one point they were said to have been making up to 500 vans a month. They used made to order Dana Axles 44's for the most part and mostly NP (but later Borg) transfer cases adapted to the stock automatic transmissions. For the rear axle they just added lifting blocks to the stock springs and axles with new longer shocks or shock spacers and the OE shocks. They started with Ford (the Quadra Van) vans in 1973 at City Ford in LA and were doing Fords, Chevy's/GMC's (the K-Van, like the GM 4x4 trucks) and Dodges (the Vancharger) in their own facility by 1976. All of the Pathfinder conversions were built on One Ton Vans only. The Fords had Coil Springs and it was not a perfect mounting system as some people will tell you. I think the Dodges were also Coils but I don't know much about them. The GM vans used a frame insert and switched to leaf springs. I have had four of these (76-78-79 and 85) trough the years and they seem OK as long as they have good bushing and such, they are tough despite they all have Dana 44's. Those old uni-body vans (Fords until 1975- GM vans until 1996 and all of the Dodge vans until 2003 when they stopped building them were uni-body) are light compared to the full frame vans. Gordon the guy who runs Pathfinder-Vans.com is a good guy who can help you get some of the hard to find parts for those vans.

lg, Thomas

[itchi]

Quelle http://web.archive.org/web/201110060157 ... index.html //

Ford E-Series 4wd Conversion 1976-91
The Ford van is the perfect vehicle to convert to 4wd. Factory Ford 4x4 pick up front axles have a left hand offset, which is ideal for a van. The Ford E-series van engine and drive train are offset to the right, so the left hand offset pick up axle can take advantage of the additional clearance.

Front Axles
The Dana 44 front axle is the most common axle used in a E-150 or E-250 4x4 conversion. But there are only a few years where Ford used an axle that would work in a van. The Ford trucks from the early to mid 1970's used drum brakes and had closed steering knuckles. Both those attributes are inappropriate for a 4x4 van conversion. After 1980, all the trucks with a Dana 44 were built with IFS (independent front suspension) front suspension. So that leaves 1978-79 Ford pickups as the best choice.

The F-150 and Bronco used a radius arm/ coil spring front suspension. If thats what you want, buy everything related to the suspension when you buy the axle. (We will be focusing on the leaf spring style suspension in this editorial). To find a Dana 44 that is set up for leaf springs, you need to find a 1978-79 Ford F-250LD. The light duty Dana 44 in an F-250 can be converted over to the Ford 1978-79 F-150 or Bronco 5-lug wheel ends. Or you can leave it 8 lug.

The Dana 60 is also available in the 1978-79 F-250HD and F-350 4x4 trucks. But from 1980 and up, the F-350 Dana 60 will work just as well.
Note: A word about buying a Ford Dana 60 axle. The Ford Dana 60 is in high demand, and there are allot of bad axles being sold by dealers. When shopping for the Ford Dana 60 axles, be picky and be aware of some of these problems.....
Inspect the spring mounting pad welded to the long side axle tube. It is normally a formed bracket that is welded in place. Is the spring pad flatted out like it's been crushed? Is the flat surface of the spring pad badly rounded on the front and back edges? If so, the axle tube will most likely be bent. If it's bent where the tube meets the center section, it won't be easy to fit. Keep shopping.
Look for oil leaks where the axle tubes are pressed into the center section. Is it wet with gear oil? If so, the tubes are loose in the housing, avoid it.
The Dana 60 axle to find will have trunnion style steering knuckles. It's not possible to mount a steering arm to the top of the ball joint style steering knuckle.

Transmissions
The C6 trans has a short main shaft in 4WD applications and a long shaft in the 2WD applications. The same is true for AOD units. You could install a 4wd trans. from the same truck from which you salvaged the adapter and transfer case. Or install a 4wd main shaft into your 2wd trans. Then you can use the OEM Ford 4x4 C-6 and E4OD trans. extension housing.
The C6 trans is very cost effective to rebuild. Should you buy a C6 trans that has not been run for a year or two, rebuild it anyway. Even if the seller says it was running when he parked it. It really sucks to have to remove a trans twice. The C6 trans has some little seals that have a tendency to dry out when the trans hasn't been used for some time. A trans with that problem will shift into "Reverse" and or "Drive" but won't engage until the trans has warmed up for 15 to 30 minutes. Whatever trans you decide to use, have a tranny shop freshen it up before you install it.

Transfer case Choices
What transfer case to use is your choice. However, if you are converting a 92up Ford van, you must use a Borg Warner 1356. A New.Process 205, 208 or Borg Warner 1345 does not have enough offset to keep the front drive shaft clear of the transmission.

Spicer Transfer cases.
Some builders prefer to use a remote mount transfercase, so they don't have to mess will changing their trans. A remote mount 205 would be the best choice. Some of the old 70's F-250 trucks had remote mount Spicer transfer cases. They have a cast iron case and are gear driven, like the 205 . But parts availability stinks. And the parts you do find "new" will be very exspencive. Some of the out put yokes alone can be as much as $100 each. Some parts aren't available at all.

New Process 205
For those who want a strong transfer case that is gear driven, the N.P. 205 is the way to go. The front and rear output yokes come in different u-joint series and styles and can be easily changed. However, they can be rather stiff when it comes to shifting.

New Process 208
The 208 has an aluminum case and is chain driven. They are reliable and shift easily. It would be a good idea to split the case and check it out. Some 208's have a fork that is aluminum with plastic fork pads which ride inside metal shift collar. The second version has a all metal gear with a nylon shift collar. The nylon version is usually trashed and needs to be replaced, use the old style if you have to rebuild your N.P. 208.

Borg Warner 1345
The Borg Warner 1345 is common in 1980's Ford trucks and Bronco's. It has an Aluminum case with chain drive, and shift's easily. They hold up well, but when they have allot of miles on them, they usually need a complete and expensive rebuild. Some of the replacement parts are only available via after market sources and can be pricey. Replacing bearings, front case half, forks, shift collars, pump parts, yokes, cam plate are all par for the coarse when rebuilding a B.W 1345.

Borg Warner 1356
The 1356 comes in a few different configurations. One version is Mechanical shift and one version is Electric shift. Most people avoid the Electric shift because it's hard to figure out the electrical to make it work. The mechanical comes in a few different configurations. One version has a "fixed" rear output yoke. Meaning the rear output has a narrow bearing retainer with a yoke is bolted in place. When using a fixed yoke style t/c, the rear drive shaft assembly will need to have a slip and spline built into the shaft.
The "slip yoke" version has a bearing retainer that is several inches long. The transfer case rear output yoke can be pulled free of the case and is several inches long. The rear drive shaft for this type of case does not require a slip and spline. The bushing that supports the slip yoke can become worn and cause some irritating vibrations.
Either one of these styles will work for you. Avoid the units that have "flange" type yokes. Even though the spline count is the same between flange and and yoke style shafts, the manufacturing process used to make the spline on the shaft is not always the same. Some splines peak with a sharp point and some are flat on top. Just enough of a difference to prevent the swap. They can be converted over by replacing shafts, but that adds up $$$.

Lets go over some of the problems with the 1356. Most used cases will pop out of gear when you step on the gas. This is a common problem with high mile, used Borg Warner cases. The shift linkage operates a lever and spindle that is located in the side of the front case half. The spindle operates the shift cam plate inside the case. The spindle tends to wear out the machined hole into an oblong egg shape. So when the you attempt to shift the case into a different position, the lever has the right throw, but the spindle cocks sideways in the case half and doesn't move the cam plate into the right position and leaves you hanging between gears. Then it pops out of gear under a load. You can replace the front case half with a new one or Pathfinder 4wd Van Accessories can machine your case half and install a bushing to restore it to the right specs.
You may also find a few other problems. The 1356 is very intolerant of poor service. Internal lubrication relies on a oil pump driven by the mainshaft. The ATF fluid is picked up via a filter on the end of a oil line and drawn up into the pump. When the case suffers from lack of fluid changes, metal particles normally sluffed off moving parts will gradually plug up the screen on the filter and starve the pump of oil. The case will quickly self destroy itself under those circumstances. Other parts prone to wear are the shift forks and the parts they operate.

[oroedel]

klar der nimmt Teile on der Originalachse, aber die Achswellen werden dreigeteilt sein und das Rad kommt dann an ne "Homocinetica" des Troller (brasilianischer Jeep, heute gehöhrt der noch zu Ford).
Hier in Brasilien müsste man das theoretisch auch vom DETRAN genehmigen lassen, ABER in Brasilien sieht man das mit den (nervigen) Gesetzen etwas anders.
Tudo proibido, tudo pode. Alles verboten, alles kann.

Meine alte (1968er) Vorderachse kann sicher nicht da einfliessen. Aber eine F4000er bekommt man locker. Moderne F350er sind selten, und Ford hat die Produktion aller Laster und Kfz, ausser SUVs und Pick-Ups in Brasilien eingestellt. F-Klasse und Cargos etc, sind also Geschichte, hier :-( Die Cargos gibt es nur noch in der Türkei (Lizenzbau), und die F-Klasse nur in den USA, MERDA!!!

Hab schon nen F350er aus den 60igern auf F4000 modern für einen Kollegen auf umgebaut, ist Plug-n-Play.
Aber 4x4 ist EXTREMER. Braucht man viele Adaptationen.

Das Difernzial hat der "rapaz" aus dem Video ja auf die Seite gelegt, damit das unter dem Motor passt.
Die Antriebswellen der Räder wird er von einem Spezialisten hier in SP beziehen, wird aber in 3 Teilen sein, 2 Wellen und "Homocinetica".
Denke dieses Projekt kann klappen. Was Preise angeht da sagt er ja schon dass eine Welle 2500R$ kostet, das Dana 46er Diferenzial mit Achse hat er für weniger als 2000 gekauft. Homocinetica 250R$.... Also alles viel billiger als eine original 4x4 Vorderachse. Teile sind LEICHT und billig zu bekommen. Auch hat man eine grössere Auswahl an Übersetzungen für das Dana 46er.

[Wilmaaa]

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