Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#961 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-07-23 22:12:14

Thanks for your supporting words, guys. Hard and long days past, nicer days to come, yes.

@tooFATtoDRIVE:

Well, the Merkabah has a console, big and heavy, that is part of and holds the bogie to the main frame rails. It has a pointed bolting pattern on the vertical part of the rail -or soul of the rail, and the frame on that part has long inner rails as reinforcement. Pretty tough. The distance between the center of both axles is 1350 mm.

Bild

If, by any chance, I would want to extend the wheel base I would prefer to cut the frame in between the bogie and the front axle and stretch it using a donor frame piece, taking good account of all the considerations from MB on the subject. As you can see from the older but clearer pictures, the frame rails have a fish type form as the soul is reduced in height near the tail so it would be not possible to move the whole console and the bogie backwards. Moreover, I am not pretty sure I would be comfortable having to drill all those extra holes along the rail.

Bild
Bild

But if the frame of the truck is straight and has plenty of holes already bored, as in the newer models, and you do not want or need to extend the length of the truck, then I should strongly recommend to move backwards the bogie. This could be accomplished just by “simply” unbolting and bolting it back as far as you want depending on the availability of holes in the rails. You can drill more, of course, following the guidelines of the builder. Naturally, if you want to extend also the whole length of the frame you can weld a piece on the tail with much less strength and torsional considerations.

If talking about moving the bogie, you must consider stretching the cardan shaft, relocating the suspension spring hangers if they exist, the same with the hangers of the sway bar, and extend the electric wires and the air and hydraulic lines which is the easiest part.

If talking about stretching the frame you just have to extend the cardan shaft, the lines and the wires but you MUST have a qualified welder and be sure that the frame rails were not heat treated. If so you cannot weld them.

Extending the wheelbase could be of use to get you more departure angle without having to “bevel” the rear of the living cabin -or Box, or to allow for more overgang. The last could be a problem when you have a third axle. Why do you want to do it, and for which truck?

Cheers.


Pairoa

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#962 Beitrag von tooFATtoDRIVE » 2019-07-23 22:41:29

pairospam hat geschrieben:
2019-07-23 22:12:14
@tooFATtoDRIVE:

Well, the Merkabah has a console, big and heavy, that is part of and holds the bogie to the main frame rails. It has a pointed bolting pattern on the vertical part of the rail -or soul of the rail, and the frame on that part has long inner rails as reinforcement. Pretty tough. The distance between the center of both axles is 1350 mm.

Bild

If, by any chance, I would want to extend the wheel base I would prefer to cut the frame in between the bogie and the front axle and stretch it using a donor frame piece, taking good account of all the considerations from MB on the subject. As you can see from the older but clearer pictures, the frame rails have a fish type form as the soul is reduced in height near the tail so it would be not possible to move the whole console and the bogie backwards. Moreover, I am not pretty sure I would be comfortable having to drill all those extra holes along the rail.

Bild
Bild

But if the frame of the truck is straight and has plenty of holes already bored, as in the newer models, and you do not want or need to extend the length of the truck, then I should strongly recommend to move backwards the bogie. This could be accomplished just by “simply” unbolting and bolting it back as far as you want depending on the availability of holes in the rails. You can drill more, of course, following the guidelines of the builder. Naturally, if you want to extend also the whole length of the frame you can weld a piece on the tail with much less strength and torsional considerations.

If talking about moving the bogie, you must consider stretching the cardan shaft, relocating the suspension spring hangers if they exist, the same with the hangers of the sway bar, and extend the electric wires and the air and hydraulic lines which is the easiest part.

If talking about stretching the frame you just have to extend the cardan shaft, the lines and the wires but you MUST have a qualified welder and be sure that the frame rails were not heat treated. If so you cannot weld them.

Extending the wheelbase could be of use to get you more departure angle without having to “bevel” the rear of the living cabin -or Box, or to allow for more overgang. The last could be a problem when you have a third axle. Why do you want to do it, and for which truck?

Cheers.


Pairoa
Hi Pairoa,

Many thanks for your commentary. It is very helpful.

What I had in mind is the scenario without cutting the frame but instead moving the bogie towards the rear end of the truck. The idea of extending the wheelbase would be to allow more departure angle without having to “bevel” the rear of the living cabin. Exactly as you said.

So far we have then:
* extended cardan shaft
* extended brake lines
* extended airlines for diff locks
* no need to change the electric cables as the total frame length would be the same.

Anything else, though?

Does any one have relevant guidelines of the builder publication? I can easily find one for MAN trucks but not for Mercedes trucks.

You said that the distance between the centre of both axles was 1350 mm. I was dreading so. The awesome Michelin XZL 16.00R20 are likely to be out of question then :mad:

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#963 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-07-24 4:39:21

tooFATtoDRIVE:

PM for the Aufbaurichtlinien Lastkraftwagen from MB. It is for the newest trucks, though it is clearly useful for every MB truck built so far.

I am probably the craziest dude here, so why would you possible like to fit 16:00R20 on your truck? They look great, yes, but when you have to lift and manoeuver one of them in uneven terrain if you have a flat... oh, oh.

Believe me, 14:00R20 are more than enough, already difficult to find, expensive as hell, heavy like a dead cow, and they look quite good enough. Michelin XZL 16:00R20 are ten times more difficult to source in 98% of the world, heavier, much more expensive and I doubt there is a big difference in performance, even in rough terrain. Good sense and some skills make the difference when handling the steering wheel.

Anyway... do you have anything concrete in mind? You can also find 6x6 trucks with longer wheelbase from MB and other builders. I suppose, if you are in Europe, that the offer is pretty wider than here.

Regards.


Pairoa

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#964 Beitrag von Uwe » 2019-07-24 7:42:07

tooFATtoDRIVE hat geschrieben:
2019-07-23 22:41:29
You said that the distance between the centre of both axles was 1350 mm. I was dreading so. The awesome Michelin XZL 16.00R20 are likely to be out of question then :mad:
@tFtD:
Um den Radstand des Doppelachsaggregats zu ändern braucht's doch nur 4 Lenker und ein paar neue Federlagen ;)

ToDo-Liste: Wenn Du es genau nimmst, müsstest Du nach der Radstandsverlängerung die Differenz der Einschlagwinkel des kurveninneren und kurvenäußeren Rads der VA an den neuen Wendekreis anpassen (mittels anderer Lenkhebel). Die Hersteller arbeiten hierbei allerdings auch in Intervallen...

Uwe
Denken ist wie Googeln, nur krasser
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Zum Glück hab ich kein Laster
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Der Wagen verströmt den sanften Ölduft, wie er nur von luftgekühlten Triebwerken ausgeht.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#965 Beitrag von Pirx » 2019-07-24 9:47:42

tooFATtoDRIVE hat geschrieben:
2019-07-23 22:41:29
Does any one have relevant guidelines of the builder publication? I can easily find one for MAN trucks but not for Mercedes trucks.
The body builder guidelines for almost any Mercedes-Benz truck are available online for everyone. The way how to get there for the elder truck models is not straightforward, but it is documented in this forum since years:

viewtopic.php?p=647951#p647951

Pirx
Der mit der Zweigangachse: 15 Vorwärtsgänge, 3 Rückwärtsgänge, Split, Schnellgang, Differentialsperre
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Ein Unimog-Fahrer.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#966 Beitrag von tooFATtoDRIVE » 2019-07-24 21:35:52

pairospam hat geschrieben:
2019-07-24 4:39:21
.... I am probably the craziest dude here, so why would you possible like to fit 16:00R20 on your truck? They look great, yes, but when you have to lift and manoeuver one of them in uneven terrain if you have a flat... oh, oh...
@Pairoa

I would like to have them for a number of reasons. Also, they seem to be less prone to flats, have a read of this discussion; https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 26t%3D2687
pairospam hat geschrieben:
2019-07-24 4:39:21
... Anyway... do you have anything concrete in mind? You can also find 6x6 trucks with longer wheelbase from MB and other builders. I suppose, if you are in Europe, that the offer is pretty wider than here.
The negotiations are on-going so nothing set in stone yet. Let's see if the seller and I could come to an agreement :spiel:


Uwe hat geschrieben:
2019-07-24 7:42:07
tooFATtoDRIVE hat geschrieben:
2019-07-23 22:41:29
You said that the distance between the centre of both axles was 1350 mm. I was dreading so. The awesome Michelin XZL 16.00R20 are likely to be out of question then :mad:
@tFtD:
Um den Radstand des Doppelachsaggregats zu ändern braucht's doch nur 4 Lenker und ein paar neue Federlagen ;)

ToDo-Liste: Wenn Du es genau nimmst, müsstest Du nach der Radstandsverlängerung die Differenz der Einschlagwinkel des kurveninneren und kurvenäußeren Rads der VA an den neuen Wendekreis anpassen (mittels anderer Lenkhebel). Die Hersteller arbeiten hierbei allerdings auch in Intervallen...

Uwe
@Uwe,
Das ist sehr hilfreich für mich. Vielen Dank!
Gibt es ein Mercedes Lkw-Modell mit längeren Federblättern?


Pirx hat geschrieben:
2019-07-24 9:47:42
tooFATtoDRIVE hat geschrieben:
2019-07-23 22:41:29
Does any one have relevant guidelines of the builder publication? I can easily find one for MAN trucks but not for Mercedes trucks.
The body builder guidelines for almost any Mercedes-Benz truck are available online for everyone. The way how to get there for the elder truck models is not straightforward, but it is documented in this forum since years:

viewtopic.php?p=647951#p647951

Pirx
@Pirx, you have saved me hours of trying to find these... That is why I frequent this forum so often. The wealth of knowledge is just crazy...

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#967 Beitrag von lura » 2019-07-25 3:29:13

Congratulation, the first drive after a long building time is unforgetable. Keep it in your heart and the Merkabah will take you onetime to a long travel.
It looks really good with the wheels.
Gruß
Bernd

Gewinne Zeit durch Langsamkeit

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#968 Beitrag von Uwe » 2019-07-25 14:34:22

tooFATtoDRIVE hat geschrieben:
2019-07-24 21:35:52
@Uwe,
Das ist sehr hilfreich für mich. Vielen Dank!
Gibt es ein Mercedes Lkw-Modell mit längeren Federblättern?
Hallo,

der Zetros wird z.B. als 6x6 mit 16.00R20 angeboten - das Doppelachsaggregat unterscheidet sich von dem des alten SK im Wesentlichen nur durch Parabelfedern anstelle der Trapeze. Aber auch den SK hat es wenn ich mich recht erinnere als Wüsten-Zugmaschine mit 16.00R20 gegeben.

Grüße
Uwe
Denken ist wie Googeln, nur krasser
-------------------------------------------
Zum Glück hab ich kein Laster
-------------------------------------------
Der Wagen verströmt den sanften Ölduft, wie er nur von luftgekühlten Triebwerken ausgeht.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#969 Beitrag von tooFATtoDRIVE » 2019-07-28 13:55:44

Uwe hat geschrieben:
2019-07-25 14:34:22
tooFATtoDRIVE hat geschrieben:
2019-07-24 21:35:52
@Uwe,
Das ist sehr hilfreich für mich. Vielen Dank!
Gibt es ein Mercedes Lkw-Modell mit längeren Federblättern?
Hallo,

der Zetros wird z.B. als 6x6 mit 16.00R20 angeboten - das Doppelachsaggregat unterscheidet sich von dem des alten SK im Wesentlichen nur durch Parabelfedern anstelle der Trapeze. Aber auch den SK hat es wenn ich mich recht erinnere als Wüsten-Zugmaschine mit 16.00R20 gegeben.

Grüße
Uwe
Ja, du war richtig in Bezug auf den Zetros LKW
http://cms.my.na/assets/documents/p18vs ... 71knc1.pdf
http://www.special-trucks.eu/agrar/down ... zetros.pdf
http://www.ziegler.si/uploads/media/Pro ... s_2010.pdf
Iain_U1250 hat geschrieben:
2018-11-03 1:23:14
Hi Pairo, you can still buy new warning light cover from MB, I bought new one from our MB truck dealer in Australia, they were in stock. If you have a truck dealer over there, ask them. Bild

If you need any help, drop me an email, I have a couple of spares.
@Ian_U1250 - what a great setup there, I really like how you designed it
pairospam hat geschrieben:
2019-01-30 14:55:41
Bild
pairospam hat geschrieben:
2019-01-30 14:43:47
Bild
@Pairoa - these tyres look quite tall. Could you measure them when you have a moment please? I wonder how they stack up against Continental HCS 14.00R20 which are 1268mm tall.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#970 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-07-29 5:55:00

Hello again:

As always, thanks for the good vibes to you all.

The tires of the Merkabah measure the same, tooFAT to DRIVE.

Going on with this thing, I thought about the first thing to do from the long list that came out after the first drive of the Merkabah.

Maybe the most important was to share the emotions in the cabin itself so I got the base of the seat and played a little with the idea of how to modify it in the best way to adapt it to the actual base.

Time was always the less available resource, but fortunately my colleague came back from his holidays for the weekend and that gave me a few more hours to dedicate to the project.

Disassembled the base of the driver’s seat, the original seat of the Montero, and removed the fixing legs that were half riveted/half welded and cut some pieces of a square steel tube to make a solid piece to which both uneven rails would be bolted. That piece, on its turn, would be bolted to the base.

Bild
Bild

I spent a few hours working on that and suddenly I realized that it was a pretty bad idea, not only because it was quiet demanding and tricky to build but innecessary.

It was not my intention to modify too much the seat base, but as it had to be done it was only matter of doing it simply and properly. So, I grabbed a steel plate and stretched the vertical plate of the shorter rail with a piece cut from the plate. The result was pretty solid and far more straightforward and resistant than an auxiliary base made from welded tubes.

Bild

I welded the plate to the rail and the journey had already come to an end. It was late again, so I had to leave and wait for the next day to resume the work.

The plan for the weekend was to take the Merkabah to a long test ride and to check if there was any problem with the locks or whatever we may find off-roading.

As previously stated, it was capital to test and measure the torsion of the frame to allow for proper building of the pivoting subframe of the living Box.

I bought some pieces of 2’x4’ timber and built what I thought was a pretty solid base for Pairoa’s mighty torsionometer, which was basically a straight tube attached to the less mobile part of the frame of the truck, the place where the console of the bogie is fixed to the frame. The HiTech instrument would indicate, precisely, how much and where, exactly, the longitudinal torsion axle of the frame was located.

After a while a pretty solid wooden frame came out from the work and was firmly attached to the upper portion of the frame rails.

Bild

I then recycled a couple of scrapped tripods from static lamps that had lost warranty long ago and did a little welding to attach the tips to a steel tube that was mounted on the wooden frame and centered in between the rails.

Bild

Using these simple materials and some scrap from recent wood works, after a few hours the torsionometer was ready to be put at test. That moment would come later, though, as it was late again and there was a birthday to celebrate that evening.

Bild
Bild
Bild

I made order, checked and re-cheked if everything was okay and that there was nothing left on the Merkabah that could fall and get lost next time, hung the dirty overall and went out to celebrate.

Next day, today to be exact, Eduardo and I gathered at the workshop in the late morning. I had already checked fluids, connected the air suspension, cranked the engine and built up air pressure.

I had also installed the GoPro in the cabin facing backwards to see how the frame, the axles and the torsionometer behaved.

We had to move a few cars that were in the path of the Merkabah and then I performed the well known back and forth dance to take the truck out of its parking place.

This time I felt the clutch less hard to press, though.

The traffic was okay and leaving the shop was easy. Sometimes it becomes very hard, even for a normal city car, to find the gap to hit the road.

Bild

Eduardo would follow me in the Mitsubishi L200, carrying the tool box, just in case. When he restored the old and faithfull pick up I proposed him to paint her the same colour as the Merkabah, but, rising an eyebrow, he sentenced that she would only accept the original tone. A little greenish to me… but everyone with his taste.

Bild

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#971 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-07-29 6:17:38

On the road, changing gears according to the speed of the traffic was easier as the blocks and the traffic lights passed. I was slowly taking the pulse to the clutch and the gearbox, and braking was also less brisky. Good.

The Merkabah rode like a big, heavy and noisy lady, but it was a delight to be on board. The suspension, without inflating the air shocks, was smooth enough. Installing the seats with their own suspension would complete the task and riding would be more than acceptable.

On the dashboard, all the instruments and lights worked except for the oil pressure and the fuel gauge. The analog oil gauge was pretty accurate, though.

Bild

Driving at 50 km/hr according to the speedometer was like running at Mach 1, but it was clearly a false feeling given by the noise and the fact that everything was moving and shaking like in an old truck and not like in a brand new car.

By the way, the steering wheel is one of the optionals, as I keep the “new” one for the moment the tests come to an end.

We stopped at the Putaendo river bed, some kilometers away from San Felipe. It was the best place to test the suspension, the axle blocks, and to see if the Merkabah fell apart if put under some pressure.

Bild

There was a brief but quite steep slope made from rounded stones and Eduardo asked if I wanted to go that way to access the river bed. I said: of course!

I went up 6x2 on purpose to see how the truck performed and, as expected, it didn’t go very far. I then connected the 6x6, ful blocked, and the Merkabah passed over the slope pretty at ease, as if it was nothing.

Bild

During the next hour and a half we spent the time on pure joy. Do you know the difference between a man a child?

Well, the truck’s high clearance was very useful when passing over big rocks and deep crevasses, and the suspension worked very well, as you can see from the next pictures.

Bild

The big tires made riding on the river of rocks pretty easy and stable, though sometimes a few were violently expelled far out of the path of the beast.

But soon I discovered a problem with the torsionometer. It indicated that there was not only torsion of the frame but also bending side to side when obliged to twist when passing on the uneven terrain. Ops.

Bild
Bild

I was sure that only torsion was allowed on the frame of any truck, and lateral bending is not acceptable from a dynamic structural perspective. The only thing I was interested on was on the height of the torsion point respect of the upper level of the frame, discovering this was not on the plans.

The lateral bending was evident in the front aspect of the frame but also in the back, even if less important. Eduardo went behind the wheel and stressed the frame, and played a little, while I followed the truck checking the movement of the indicator of the torsionometer.

Bild
Bild

There was no doubt: something was wrong, wether with the instrument, wether with the frame. Naturally, the former was more likely.

Bild

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#972 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-07-29 6:26:24

We checked how the air suspension worked but there really was no place for it in that given rough scenario.

The truck handled pretty well, and the power of the mighty V8 was more than enough to move the nude truck as it was and eventually with any amount of tons you may want to load it with. First gear in low range was a little too fast to my tastes, probably due to the big tires, but was slow enough to manoeuver with peace of mind.

Bild

The bogie swinged pretty well even if the range of movement was visually less than I expected. The third axle went on the air not very often, though.

Bild
Bild

Later, in the afternoon, when analyzing the videos of the GoPro on the truck it became evident what was happening with the torsionometer. It was too long.

Being on a long extension of the twisting frame rails made the wooden frame twist as well, as if it was actually part of the chassis. When one of the edges went up the other two connected directly to it went down, twisting the whole construct and thus driving sidewards the tube of the torsionometer.

Bild

I would have to assemble a new wooden frame, with a much shorter base and, if possible, attach it to the side of the frame rail only, in a way to minimize the effect of a wider contact with the surface of the twisting rail, mimicking the central bracket that would actually connect the living Box to the frame.

Anyway, at that moment we were not very worried about that issue. It was just a matter of researching and solving later. Driving the truck and checking the handling and the 6x6 performance was more important… and funny.

Bild
Bild

Oh yes… we had a lot of fun and we discovered very few problems, each one quite simple to fix. The Merkabah worked pretty well. It was easy to drive, powerful, stable, high enough to manage tall slopes and the suspension was pretty flexible.

Bild
Bild

When checking the rear spring brackets, though, we found that the sharp edges of the bigger leaves had already started to eat the steel of the bracket. Ops.

Bild

The return to the shop was uneventful. The traffic was heavier but we managed to go through the street fair with no much trouble. The big lady attracted a big deal of attention, though, and my jaws were beginning to ache carrying such a big smile.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#973 Beitrag von tooFATtoDRIVE » 2019-07-29 7:07:50

pairospam hat geschrieben:
2019-07-29 6:26:24
Being on a long extension of the twisting frame rails made the wooden frame twist as well, as if it was actually part of the chassis. When one of the edges went up the other two connected directly to it went down, twisting the whole construct and thus driving sidewards the tube of the torsionometer.

Bild

I would have to assemble a new wooden frame, with a much shorter base and, if possible, attach it to the side of the frame rail only, in a way to minimize the effect of a wider contact with the surface of the twisting rail, mimicking the central bracket that would actually connect the living Box to the frame.
Superb post and pictures!

Regarding measuring the frame twist: please have a look at the below video from 4:13 mark - perhaps this would be helpful to visible see how the frame twists?


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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#974 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-08-14 6:51:02

Hello again:

Life and the project go on, fortunately. And now it is even more funny even if I barely step into the shop.

Short on time, short on progresses, I worked a little more with the base of the seat of the Montero, but finally got to nothing trying to preserve the original base of the truck's seat.

I would have to build a new base to bolt both the seats securely to the floor of the cabin. It was not that it was too hard, at all, but I definitely did not want to because a matter of time.

Bild

Pairoa’s mighty torsionometer failed in its first attempt, so I rebuilt it keeping the less amount of surface of the framerail wings in contact with the Hi-tech instrument.

Supposedly, the next time the frame would flex the torsion of the wing would not affect significantly the shape of the torsionometer and thus the measurements would be more accurate.

Bild

At some point I borrowed Eduardo’s L200 and went to pick up the already finished lining of the rear wall. Hermann, the tapestry man, did a good job, and the lining went as soon as possible in place. Had to take out the steering wheel again to make enough room to install it, though.

Ah, it looked pretty well! Do you remember the look of the cabin when I bought the Merkabah? It was pretty miserable. Now it started to regain some dignity.

Bild

I was having trouble finding the spares for the windows of the doors, though. There were almost no more spares for the old NG model at the official dealer as I had bought them all already. Hmm…

Anyway. One of the most important items to work on was the four point torsion free mounting for the Box, so I profited of the first Saturday morning I was free from watch and set things up to take the Merkabah out of the shop.

After moving a few cars that blocked the path the truck was parked on the street. Even with no doors and no Box it drove the attention of the bypassers a lot.

Bild

This time I made a solo trip to a different playground. The remains of an ancient manor in the suburbs of San Felipe was the right spot to continue with the torsion tests of the frame. It was great to go offroad and play with the 6x6 but I needed to check the flex without the interference of the rough terrain.

The place was solitary except for a Rastafari who came by on a bicycle, took out something from his bag I guess was a cannabis cigarette and sat alone to do his business.

Started slowly, with little obstacles to check if the torsionometer worked as expected, and it did. There was something, though, that was not in the book: the actual axle of torsion of the frame was below the level of the superior wing of the framerail, and many centimeters below.

Bild
Bild

I went on and repeated the observations in a number of situations, and it was pretty consistent.

Bild
Bild
Bild

Suposedly the axial torsion of the frame, at least in the Unimogs, was at the level of the wing of the rail. Well... seemed it was not the case.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#975 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-08-14 7:02:02

At some point I decided to go serious and aimed to one of the half demolished staircases to make the truck flex for real. Had to connect the 6x6 to go up, though.

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The amount of flex of the frame was surprising considering that it is a chassis with double framerails. It wouldn’t have survived all the abuse inflicted untill these days if it was not for this, of course.

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The readings were also clear: the torsion point went below, and that meant potential problems when the time to build and install the pivoting supports came.

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There was also another issue regarding the movement of the torsionometer, well known by any serious builder, of course. There was a little but actual rocking movement of the torsionometer as the frame flexed. The front and rear ends went up and down depending on the magnitude of the flex. That is the reason why usually the Boxes are mounted on transverse round tubes in the center of the four-point frame, to allow them to balance, pivoting perpendicular to the longitudinal axle of the frame.

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I repeated the experience a couple of times and the results were the same, wether the climbing of the stairs was front or rearwards.

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You can see that the most rear tire on the right side of the truck was lacking some air pressure. Well… if you saw the tire from the inner point of view you could be surprised on how low on pressure it was.

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As later discussed with someone who knows a lot about truck designing, the amount of flex may vary when loading the frame, but the way and the height of the torsion axle remains the same as it is determined by the structure of the frame itself.

The point is to be aware of the situation when the truck is loaded and flexed, as the relative height of the tires may reach and eventually strike the Box. Hmm… More test and measurements were needed.

When I thought I was done with the torsion tests, and curious people began to show up to see what was going on there, I drove away by the side road that was in pretty bad conditions. It was the ideal road to check how the air suspension worked.

Unfortunately the dirt road was pretty dry and, as the Merkabah rushed through, clouds of dust were thrown into the air and inside the environmentally friendly cabin. I thought briefly about the new and shining clean linings and then shrugged. I had enough struggling with the gearbox and the controls for the air suspension.

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I focused only on the front axle suspension, of course, and I found out that the ride was quite bumpy with no pressure on the air shocks, striking the stoppers pretty often. If the pressure was settled higher the ride became quieter (just for saying) and notably smoother. I set up the pressure in the best level I could find at the moment and then pressed the pedal to see what the truck could do.

More dust and more bumps and a lot of noise coming from the empty chassis behind but, all in all, not pretty bad for a test ride in a miserable dirt road at 70 km/hr in a recently resuscitated 1978 truck.

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I checked also the brakes and, when applied firmly, all the wheels, and I mean all, blocked and the truck stopped at once. I was only hoping that the cabin did not swing violently forward with me biting the dust in front of the truck. Good.

When I bought the Merkabah many years ago only one of the six wheels did actually brake, and when it did, eight tonnes of truck drifted portside with nothing to stop it. That was scary.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#976 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-08-14 7:09:52

Happy and feeling like the king of the world I turned back to the city, a few blocks away. I was a little nervous, though, because of the illegal condition of the Merkabah.

When I reached the gates of the shop there was a couple of cars blocking the entrance as Eduardo was chatting with some clients. I then decided to continue a couple of blocks ahead, pretty near downtown.

It was the right time to put some pressure on the front right tire and the most rear right tire so I parked in a service station and tried to air up the massive wheels with not a single chance even to reach the inflation valve.

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So, I cranked the mighty V8 again and continued down the street and got to the shop where originaly the 14:00R20 tires were mounted in the rims.

Adding air pressure is not a fast activity, especially with tires the size of the Merkabah’s, and it was time to close, time to lunch for everybody. They could only get to 60 psi on both tires. Enough for me.

I profited of the tour and stopped at another gas station and added some diesel to the fuel tank for the next series of tests. I had originally estimated the fuel consumption in 4 km/l, with a happy guessing of 4,5 km/lt. Maybe I was aiming too high.

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It is surprising how tight the turning radius is and how easily you can get used of the dimensions of the truck. At first I was too close or too far from the rest of the traffic and the signals, but in the end I was pretty confident and precise with the steering.

When I got to the shop again, guess what? There was a soccer game at the stadium and there were at least fifty policemen patrolling the front sidewalk.

What did I do? Parked pretty casually, left the engine running and opened the gates. One by one took out the cars that gave trouble and then I even shot a few pictures of the Merkabah from the central lane of the avenue.

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At no time I looked to the front but I was sure that at least one of the policemen must have noted the lack of plates and mirrors and, of course, doors, but I gracefully jumped into the cabin and with a precise move I made the Merkabah enter through the gates and parked her at her place.

A few moments later there was no sign of Pairoa, cars or Merkabah on any side of the street, and life and soccer continued as always.

I was happy, but also began to feel ill because I had gotten flu and it was at the beginnings. Anyway, Eduardo had pointed that the upper supports for the rear air shocks moved upwards when inflated, which I found odd though possible. They were made from pieces of the frame of Spare the truck, and there had to be tollerances as the steel was intended to flex.

I don’t like to guess, though, well… not always, so I profited the fullness of the air tanks and measured the deflection. It was of 2 millimetres at the tip of the support at 60 psi and won’t go any further despite raising the pressure.

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I was pretty confident of the job done, but Eduardo was not. At the time I built and eventually stretched the supports I had already a lot of experience with the MIG, welding mostly metal sheets for car bodies, though, not with thicker steel.

My brother in law feared that, with time and vibrations, the supports would fall apart or at least would brake causing trouble in the middle of the African sabana.

Checked the pictures taken on the occasion and, even if there was a couple of pretty fine welded supports, the others could at least be qualified as dubious.

Eduardo had a point. I decided then to build reinforced supports and replace the upper ones. The lower supports would be reinforced with a second holder plate and with supplementary gussets welded to the base. But that was for another day and the last item on the To Do List.

I checked and rechecked to make sure there was nothing broken, missing, burnt out, cooked, misplaced, blown, disconnected, etc. and the only thing that was out of order was the torsionometer itself. Seemed it was not able to endure the race on the bad dirt road.

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When the body, especially the joints, began to protest notably, I already had fever. So, I made some order and went home. The soccer game was still not over when I left.

After some crazy ideas that I left pass by, it was clear to me that I needed to make a full mockup of the subframe of the Box to ascertain the measurements and, only then, think of building a nice and accurate torsion–free subframe.

As I cannot think without drawing I started to scratch some ideas on paper and, after a while, there was a definite idea of what to do next. I needed to go for more 2’x4’ pieces of timber, and an aspirine.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#977 Beitrag von Uwe » 2019-08-14 8:12:54

Hi,

looks like you have lots of fun :)

I think the turning radius will increase when there is weight on the rear axles so they can do their job going straight forward whatever the steering wheel is saying :ninja:

What is your 'operating model' for the air springs? Filled onroad and empty offroad? Did you make measurements how they affect the movement of the bogie?

Best
Uwe
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Der Wagen verströmt den sanften Ölduft, wie er nur von luftgekühlten Triebwerken ausgeht.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#978 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-08-14 16:18:05

Hi, Uwe:

Yes, I am having a lot of fun indeed.

The current drag of the third axle is enormous, as in any tandem. It will only get worse when loaded, BUT... this is where the air suspension comes into play. If I have to make a tight turn, I raise the pressure on the second axle, the load is transferred to those tires and thus the third axle "floats" and the drag is minimized. Uh, uh.

The amount of pressure in the air shocks required to lift the frame and free the leaf springs is actually very low, near 25 psi. This is when the truck is as it is, unloaded. Inflating and deflating the air shocks is quite fast so it is not a problem. The pressure will have to raise more and it will take a little more time when the Box is on, obviously, but I guess that it will by no means be an operational issue.

There is, though, a problem with the air suspension on the bogie: the presence of the leaf springs. If the intention is to lift the side of the truck or raise the tail of the truck, when parking on uneven terrain for instance, I can only use one of the air shocks. If I inflate the shocks of the second axle and the third axle at the same time they start to struggle against the leaf spring, trying to bend it downwards. If I inflate only one shock the effect is that the leaf spring makes the other axle pivot on the console and raise. Good for turning, but not so good for levelling.

I haven't experimented enough yet for having a precise chart of inflation pressures for the air suspension, and it will eventually change when the truck has the Box mounted and loaded, but its is natural to think that it is better to deflate everything and let the suspension work at its limit when offroading and to control the height and comfort when travelling onroad.

Thanks for your words.


Pairoa

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#979 Beitrag von landwerk » 2019-08-14 17:35:32

Hi!


Glad to see your Truck running!



I thought it would never get on the road.



Liebe Grüße


Oli

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#980 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-08-15 15:30:40

Thank you, Oli. But, please... a little more faith!

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#981 Beitrag von WolfS » 2019-08-17 20:34:34

Hey Pairoa!

I really enjoy watching you building this truck, I really do! Hope to see you soon on a world tour!

Regarding the turning radius...could you do a comparison? It would be interesting for me to see what a full turning radius the 6x6 has without any load and with the cap on it later.

As far as I know the 2626 shoud have 16,2 meters (or 18,1 meters)...

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Maybe you can also do one try with the "floating" third axel...the difference would also be very interesting.

All the best for you and your family!

Kind regards,
Wolfram

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#982 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-08-18 20:37:29

Hi, Wolfram: Thanks for your regards. Carmen, the dogs and the cats send back regards to you.

Yes, I will measure the turning radius with and without the intervention of the air suspension next time I go out in the Merkabah. It will be a good and objective method of quantify the relationship between the steering and the suspension.

And, following with this story, the flu and the bronchitis that came along with it had me at the edge during the week, but did not throw me to bed this time.

As soon as I had a little time and was in the right mood I went to the shop and disassembled the torsionometer. For the next step it was of no use as it was.

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I borrowed the L200 from Eduardo and went to buy a few more 2x4 pieces of timber. Using the pieces already cut and some more from the new ones I started to assemble what would be the definitive device to test the flex of the frame, a mockup of the overframe, or the subframe of the Box, as you will.

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The idea was to build this replica of the overframe provided with a variable height of the front and rear pivoting attachments to see, with the greatest possible accuracy I could figure out, where to set the pivot in a way that it would be affected as little as possible by the torsion of the frame of the truck.

Working with wood is a good thing, and the pieces of timber were straight and solid enough for the purpose in focus. They were also flexible, of course, which was the most important feature as the wooden frame had to be very sensitive to torsion.

Anyway, I went on, Saturday in the afternoon, and assembled the main wooden frame. It looked good.

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Some pieces cut from an old metallic cabinet door were used as the variable height front and rear connectors. I drilled a lot of holes to get intervals of 1 centimeter height, starting four centimeters below the level of the superior wings of the framerails.

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After a few uncomfortable manoevers I was able to screw the metal sheets to the frame and couple it to the cross members fixed to the framerails. It was a relatively lightweight construct, but long and hard to lift and move with only two hands, though.

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Time passed by and I did not get to finish the job, lacking the middle section cross members and attachments. To make it worse I got a call from work and had to leave.

It was late when I finished so I did not return to the shop and went home instead to pick Carmen for a nice dinner out. Not bad, after all.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#983 Beitrag von tooFATtoDRIVE » 2019-09-02 15:32:29

Long time no hear - what's the latest with your project?

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#984 Beitrag von ami » 2019-09-02 22:46:44

2 weeks, isn´t long!!! As he told us, sometimes he has to work. :angel:

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#985 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-09-10 18:25:34

Hi again.

In fact, two or three weeks isn’t much time. I need to work as everybody else to pay for the toys I love to play with. And work has been hard with very little time left for the Merkabah.

Just a few news, all in all.

Last time I was in the middle of the building of a new and more accurate torsionometer or torsiometer to get the proper height of the flexfree point of the frame.

There have been tons of consideration and debate on this regard, here and everywhere, and the conclusion, always IMHPO, is that you need to determine the right spots only by experimenting with your frame because every truck is different from the others.

Anyway, I went on and decided to locate the longitudinal pivoting points just slightly above the upper wing of the framerails as the rocking movement of the subframe of the Box is minimal and not greatly affected by the height between the center of the rail and the top of it. And because it was easier… of course.

Threading the wooden crossmember was a good and simple idea and gave a pretty firm grip for the structure while keeping the possibility of oscilating arounf the M10 bolt.

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Alternating between the torsiometer and other tasks I went on also with the new base for the driver’s seat. It had to be wider and shorter to allow for the old seats of the Montero to fit on.

It was very laborious but in the end, after cutting, checking, trimming, checking, drilling, checking and welding, the base was almost begun.

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Suddenly, the neighbor’s plum tree blossomed announcing the arrival of the spring. And there had been almost no rains during the whole winter in the valley. Ops. Things were turning very hard for he agriculture and for wilderness as the dryness was already critical in the region. We had some days with 30 and 34 degrees Celsius in plain winter. Weather is really crazy.

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Well, the thing with the torsiometer went on and I installed some plates to allow for the laser level to be located each time at the same right spot to have accurate measurements of the differences in the torsion of the structure while bending the frame of the truck.

Planning, measuring and aligning the beams was not a problem, but finding the bloddy box where I had put the laser level was a real nightmare in the first place.

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When everything was ready I realized that there was a couple of no working cars that were blocking the path out of the shop for the Merkabah, but I thought it twice and decided that instead of going out to extreme the flex of the frame in the countryside I would better use the jack to lift the wheels and make measurements in a more controlled and reproducible way. It would be a pain in the ass to work with the hydraulic jack but… what the heck.

Also, I would use the air suspension to increase the lift of the frame in the proper place to contribute to the flex.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#986 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-09-10 18:36:17

So, I lifted the rear right wheel and put it on one of the old brake drums kept always at hand… just in case.

Then, I repeated the move on the front left wheel. A pause and a picture showed a very promising job, but when I was uncomfortably jacking up the last centimeters I heard a strange bump coming from the upper part of the cabin. Ops.

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I instinctively released the jack and all the pass sweat and effort became useless as the whole truck went on the floor again.

What had happened is that the idiot forgot to move the truck forward and the roof hatch hit the steel beam of the floor of the attic.

Fortunately, the damage was marginal and the hatch did not dent, but the lesson was hard. Pay attention, Pairoa!

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I would have to start the truck, wait for the air pressure to build up, try not to die from poisoning with the exhaust gases, take the cars out of the way and move the truck forward to avoid hitting the beam again, and I was frankly not on the mood for it. Moreover, it was very late already so I shrugged, made a little order and went home.

Next day, sunday morning, I resumed the running with the dogs after a couple of months with no run due to a series of health problems, own and other people’s.

The morning air was fresh, no clouds, and not one single spot of snow on the mountains as you can see.

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It was hard for me to get to the usual place on the hills, seven kilometers from home, my legs protesting for the effort. It was also hard for the dogs. Chico’s tongue almost reached the soil but the four dogs were pretty happy to go out after that long while.

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Do not remember well when but at some moment in the afternoon I went to the shop to carry out the laboratory-like torsion test. I was alone, as usual.

I made an attempt to crank the mighty V8 but the batteries were low and the engine refused to run. There was a low but constant loss of current when the truck was parked, hmm…

Really, I wanted pretty bad to finish with the bloody torsion tests to fabricate the subframe and all the rest of the stuff. I had no time nor will to wait for the batteries to charge so I cannibalized a couple of batteries from a van and a car that were parked in the shop and connected them to the Merkabah and got to crank the engine at the first try.

I made a series of measurements with the laser level recording the basal state of the truck and then I wide opened the gates to let the wind enter and clean the exhaust smoke.

Left the batteries pretty near, just in case, and reconnected those of the the truck to let them recharge by their own. When the air pressure was up I freed the maxi brakes and moved the Merkabah away from the attic and repeated the lifting manoever of the rear wheel and then the front left wheel, unobstructed this time. A trully PITA, as expected.

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Getting in and out the cabin was pretty difficult as the height reached after jacking and applying 95 psi of pressure to the air shock was quite tall and the tire spinned when I tried to lean on it to get up.

Anyway, I made sure that the batteries were charged before stopping the engine and I continued with the measurements keeping the numbers on the ad hoc chart.

I realized that applying some force with my hands I was able to twist the torsiometer enough to release the pins of the vertical members and to change the height of the level of them without the need of jacking the wheels up and down each time. Great.

Got a series of results from the experiment, with slight variations, the biggest of them of only 1,9 cm, but I was not pretty convinced of the accuracy of the readings regarding the reality. The lectures were pretty clear but I started to distrust the torsiometer itself.

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I jacked the truck off and repeated the measurements to compare them with the initial basal ones, and they had changed, plop.

The problem was the wood. The material was prone to deformation with the temperature, humidity and whoever knows. The thing is that it was not the adecuate material as it had changed and twisted itself during the same test. Hmm…

Put the borrowed batteries back in place, moved the Merkabah at her original and well known position, cleaned a little and went home again. No more wooden instruments. I would have to assemble a serious steel torsiometer.

Time passed and there was no big chance to work on the Merkabah. The building of the house had finally begun so I had to keep an eye on it and I barely stepped on the workshop for a couple of weeks.

The old… no… the last of the powergrinders passed away after the fifth replacement of the brushes and it seemed not to have any possible re-re-resurrection. I gave it the last goodbye and got a new one, the fourth after the beginning of the project. There had been a parade of powergrinders, and it seemed not to have a near end.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#987 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-09-10 18:43:47

When I could, I got some steel and also a dedicated angle-cutter saw to work with. I also got a few more G clamps of different sizes to help me with the task.

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Working a couple of hours at a time, when I was lucky, I came up with a new torsiometer made of 30x30x3 L steel profiles. I kept the wooden crossmembers, though.

I made the torsiometer wider than before to detect more easily the changes in the flex.

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But, when I was ready to perform the torsion test again, there was a new couple of broken cars in front of the Merkabah so I was not able to move her. Hmm…

There still was the base of the seat to finish so I got on it and continued with the somewhat complicated though interesting task.

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And this is where I am at this point, working briefly and sporadicly but with the same will and the same faith. At some moment I will be able to build, without any reasonable doubt, the four-point torsionfree subframe for the Box and the third phase of the project will, finally, begin.

Regards from Chile.

Pairoa

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#988 Beitrag von a90 » 2019-09-10 21:29:48

Nice work again Pairoa, keep up the good work !!

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#989 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-09-16 4:52:16

Hello, and thanks for the encouragement, a90.

Some brief words regarding the project. It is easier to report little things, especially when you have time for it, and not let the story go on and cumulate, not remembering when or what did you do.

First of all, I have to confess that I finally washed the GS 1200 Adventure. I had not done it since I got her, many months ago, and it was fair and absolutely necessary.

So many surfaces and details! I had not any hydrojet at hand so I washed it for good with my hands and a brush. Good results but pretty annoying in the end.

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Only when I finished I felt worthy enough to take the bike and ride her to the workshop where I had a lot of things to do. I needed to complete the steel torsionometer and, of course, to use it.

Once the last touches were okay, I jacked up the rear wheel but, just when I was ready, I realized that I had forgotten to move the Merkabah forward, again. Ops.

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The mighty V8 came to life and the air pressure started to build up. When the air governor cut, some boring minutes later, I was able to free the maxibrakes and move the Merkabah.

After a little while and some efforts, the rearmost right wheel and the front left wing were up once again.

I made some measurements and then applied 95 psi to the appropriate air shocks and the twisting of the frame was complete. Maybe you cannot see it from the picture, but the cabin was pretty, pretty high and the frame quite twisted.

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Well… horror. The torsionometer accused a total failure regarding the stability of itself. I assumed that it was 17 cm below the upper wing of the framerail in the front and 15 cm in the rear. Totally wrong, as it was clearly visible at naked eye.

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And, when the laser level was turned on, the long waited torsional stability of the subframe was undoubtfully gone to hell. Hmm…

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After a few considerations, a cup of burning Chai tea, and some more measurements, I realized that I needed to go much deeper in search for the famous torsion free points.

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Zuletzt geändert von pairospam am 2019-09-17 19:02:37, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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Re: Mercedes 2626 AK 6x6

#990 Beitrag von pairospam » 2019-09-16 4:57:36

I cut, welded and drilled some pieces of steel as supples and stretched the perforated plates to reach far bellow the level of the upper framerail.

The new measurements indicated that the front height was 31 cm and the rear one was 27, so I set the torsion free points accordingly.

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And then I measured again, putting the laser level very carefully in place not to have any false or biased readings. It was a PITA to do it and walk around the frame back and forth writing down the results, especially because it was late, I was tired, with no lunch until then, and I had an appointment that I finally dropped off.

Anyway, the results were recorded with 95 psi and also without any influence of the air suspension. Then, I jacked off the truck, which was not easy nor fast, and measured again to see if the torsionometer showed important variations. Great, not at all!

When the truck and the frame were flat, the torsionometer looked pretty flat too and the readings of the laser level were pretty stable.

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The greatest variation was of only 17 mm, from the basal state to the extreme torsional situation, measured from the center rearmost part to the right front extreme, some 4 meters apart from each other, 75 cm away from the longitudinal central axle of the frame. Not bad, after all. Almost all of the other readings were within one centimeter of difference, totally acceptable.

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Building the brackets and the mounts of the subframe of the Box that deep posed a pretty complex problem, though, but I was sure there would be a nice and elegant way to overcome it.

I moved the Merkabah back to where she was, made some little order and went home to have lunch with Carmen. It was a late lunch but a happy one.

Next morning the dogs almost broke the windows, claiming mercilessly for the Sunday run. If it wasn’t for them, maybe I wouldn’t have even thought of going out of the bed because I was pretty tired.

Though, the air was fresh, there was almost no traffic, and the City has cleaned the roads so there were a few less tons of garbage around, and that made me pretty happy.

The poplars were still in their winter pijamas, but soon they would catch up the spring as almost all of the trees around, like some of the old peach trees on the side of the road.

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And this is it, at least until today. As soon as possible I will take the truck for a serious torsion test with the torsionometer on to be sure of the measurements. Have a nice week, you all.

Pairoa

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