Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

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Mula Camion Sauvage
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Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#1 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-18 17:08:36

Hello..

My engine has a problem of pressure in the water system.
Some months ago i found some oil on the water system so i opened the cylinder head , changed all the gaskets, water pump (Febi), thermostat, new refurbished radiator, new injector nozzles. Did not touch the engine block.
I bleed the system as it says on the owners book.

But now the pressure is still there and the water pump started to leak from the under hole.
The temperature goes around 95º sometimes almost touching the 100º line. The radiator is on the top very hot and under is cold. (new thermostat 83º)
Every time i open the pressure tank (cold) there is water coming out.
I question myself if the i placed the tubes correctly...the thinner tube (yellow arrow) from the radiator (up right side) goes to the lid of the pressure tank.
70602524_947180175635723_936046954901667840_n.jpg
70537682_3085906251481987_4486156493871120384_n.jpg
69601251_382305019382272_7591733546155245568_n.jpg
Is this correct? It makes no sense. Only if it flows from the pressure tank valve to the radiator. I thought it was other way.
I am lost...don´t know where to start. I will change the water pump and bleed it good and test. Why the radiator is half cold half hot? The thermostat is new...and i see it working on the dashboard...temperature is oscillating while driving.
A friend asked me where is the hole to bleed the water system...i said i don´t know...i fill the pressure tank, heat the engine until the thermostat opens and then refill if needed. But then we found two bolts on the top of the water pipe. Is on the left side top, a hard tube that connects to the thermostat housing. Some one knows if they are used to bleed te system?
69601251_382305019382272_7591733546155245568_n.jpg
Anyone with different ideas?

Google translate.
Hallo ..

Mein Motor hat ein Druckproblem im Wassersystem.
Vor ein paar Monaten habe ich etwas Öl im Wassersystem gefunden, also habe ich den Zylinderkopf geöffnet, alle Dichtungen, die Wasserpumpe (Febi), den Thermostat, den überholten Kühler und die neuen Einspritzdüsen ausgetauscht. Motorblock nicht berühren.
Ich habe das System entlüftet, wie es im Buch des Eigentümers steht.

Aber jetzt ist der Druck noch da und die Wasserpumpe fing an, aus dem Unterloch zu lecken.
Die Temperatur geht um 95º und berührt manchmal fast die 100º-Linie. Der Kühler ist oben sehr heiß und unten ist es kalt. (neuer Thermostat 83.)
 Jedes Mal, wenn ich den Druckbehälter öffne (kalt), tritt Wasser aus.
Ich frage mich, ob ich die Röhren richtig platziert habe ... die dünnere Röhre vom Kühler (oben rechts) geht zum Deckel des Druckbehälters.

Ist das richtig? Das ergibt keinen Sinn. Nur wenn es vom Druckbehälterventil zum Kühler fließt. Ich dachte, es wäre anders.
Ich bin verloren ... weiß nicht, wo ich anfangen soll. Ich werde die Wasserpumpe wechseln und sie gut entlüften und testen. Warum ist der Kühler halb kalt, halb heiß? Der Thermostat ist neu ... und ich sehe, dass er auf dem Armaturenbrett funktioniert ... die Temperatur schwankt während der Fahrt.
Ein Freund fragte mich, wo das Loch ist, um das Wassersystem zu entlüften. Ich sagte, ich weiß nicht. Ich fülle den Drucktank, erhitze den Motor, bis sich der Thermostat öffnet und fülle ihn bei Bedarf wieder auf. Aber dann fanden wir zwei Schrauben an der Oberseite der Wasserleitung. Es ist auf der linken Seite oben ein harter Schlauch, der mit dem Thermostatgehäuse verbunden ist. Weiß jemand, ob sie zum Entlüften des Systems verwendet werden?

Jemand mit anderen Ideen?
Dateianhänge
70317760_450909002436395_4017924570919993344_n.jpg

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sascha71
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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#2 Beitrag von sascha71 » 2019-09-19 9:48:56

Hi,

When you Exchange the headgasket, die you Test the
The zylinderhead of cracks / defekt ( Not visual ) ?

You Can also quick Test the cooling liquide for exhaust Gas.

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DaPo
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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#3 Beitrag von DaPo » 2019-09-19 10:10:30

Hello,

two possible problems come into my mind:
  1. You have built in a new thermostat.
    In the past the thermostats had a little valve on the ground plate. Due to the costs most manufacturers cancelled this tiny valve. So now it can happen that air bubbles isolate the thermostat from the hot water preventing it from opening. I had this on my Unimog and it drove me crazy (and i know several similar cases).

    My solution to that was to drill a little hole (2 or 3 mm) in the ground plate of he thermostat. You can see a little spot where the valve was normally located.
    The air can go througt the thermostat even if closed (and he little amount of water that might go through isn't a problem) and everthing is fine.
    .
  2. The engine block might be broken. I have seen more than one OM352 with cracks between two cylinders.
    Solution? Hmm, guess you know what that means...
Grüße
DaPo (Daniel)

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#4 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-19 14:01:20

Hello,

Yes Sascha, the cylinder head was tested on the shop! They said the cylinder head was leaking from the o-rings of the injectors bed. New o-rings fitted and new gasket from Elring. All the other gaskets was Victor Reinz.

Yes Dapo, i fitted a new thermostat, and this one (Diesel Technic) has a hole already.

Ok the engine block can be cracked but then i would have overheat, lack of power and oil mixed on water..and that don´t happen. Or am i wrong?

I don´t know if the thin tube from radiator should go to the entrance of the expansion tank, as show in the photos. When i put the lid on, the water from the radiator thin tube cannot escape. Is stuck between the lid (valve) When i open the lid (after warm and cool down) the water comes out spitting (pressure), and this water comes from the little hole (radiator thinner tube) not from the main water of expansion tank. I believe if this tube enters the expansion tank on other place (new hole i must drill) and drops inside, the pressure on the lid will go away.

My truck 1017AF had triple cabin (9 places) with expansion tank on top of the engine but when i bought it, i swap cabins to a sleeper (5 places) and install the backside expansion tank that i found in the Alfers und Sohn junkyard. I did it my self so i don´t know if connect the tubes to the correct place.
A friend mechanic is advising to drill a new hole on the expansion tank to place the thinner tube. I am lost..any ideas?

Thanks for the inputs.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#5 Beitrag von Mark86 » 2019-09-19 14:30:29

Yes Sascha, the cylinder head was tested on the shop! They said the cylinder head was leaking from the o-rings of the injectors bed. New o-rings fitted and new gasket from Elring. All the other gaskets was Victor Reinz.
The O Rings in the cylinderhead are the sealing from water to oil. If they are leaking, you have water in the oil.
The housing where the injektors are fittet in are the sealing from water to cylinder...

You see this thing here:
https://mogparts.de/de/unimog-ersatztei ... 3520170053

The O Ring is only the sealing on the top, water to oil. The bottom side ist without sealing water to cylinder. If you dissasemble this part, you need to clean the cylinderhead inside verry good and you shoult take new housings. I bought them original at my Mercedes Benz dealer like the others...
You better not repair this car with spareparts from febi... My Waterpump from Rouville made 80.000km... Now its MB OE... My thermostat 3 Month..

To change the housings, you need a special nut. You can buy a set of special tools on german EBay for ~130-150€, there is even the nut inside...
Der Klügere gibt so lange nach bis er der Dümmere ist.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#6 Beitrag von sascha71 » 2019-09-19 15:11:06

Hi, no, in Most cases any cracks in Zylinder Head/Block is only noticed by the loss of liquids and/or pressure in the cooling System and/or liquids where they don‘t Belong.

Worst case, you have a Crack, when the Engine is Running , your combustion pressure is releaving into the cooling System , when Engine is Turmes off, liquids out of the cooling System will Reliefe into the cylinder causing Potential Engine damage.

As Said before , do a quickcheck, If negative you have the assurance and can Start Elimination further possibilities .

To your question, don‘t know, but there is Little you can do wrong, very Basic System, no camparison to modern vehicles.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#7 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-19 15:38:58

Olá,

So the thin tube from radiator is in the correct place?
It should go from the top right side of the radiator to the expansion tank lid (valve). It stays on the middle of the valve (attached photos).??
I find the pressure there...the water coming out when i open the lid (valve)is from this thin tube.

I can have a crack on the engine but first i must eliminate possibilities. I am almost drilling a hole on the expansion tank...and connect the tube in other place.


Thanks for the inputs...i would like to try all possibilities before open the engine again..!

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#8 Beitrag von sascha71 » 2019-09-19 16:09:41

Hi,

The quick Check is just a chemical that prooves the existance of CO in you Cooling liquide, as far as i remember , Takes a Minute , no disassemby of anything Nessessary . Google co or co2-Test.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#9 Beitrag von DaPo » 2019-09-19 17:26:05

Hello,
Mula Camion Sauvage hat geschrieben:
2019-09-19 14:01:20
Yes Dapo, i fitted a new thermostat, and this one (Diesel Technic) has a hole already.

Ok the engine block can be cracked but then i would have overheat, lack of power and oil mixed on water..and that don´t happen. Or am i wrong?
this depends on where it is cracked. If just gas blows into the water you have neither lack of power nor oil mixed in.


Mark86 hat geschrieben:
2019-09-19 14:30:29
You better not repair this car with spareparts from febi... My Waterpump from Rouville made 80.000km... Now its MB OE... My thermostat 3 Month..
And what has a defect Ruville pump have to do with Febi? :wack:
Grüße
DaPo (Daniel)

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#10 Beitrag von Pirx » 2019-09-19 20:43:34

Mula Camion Sauvage hat geschrieben:
2019-09-18 17:08:36
I question myself if the i placed the tubes correctly...the thinner tube (yellow arrow) from the radiator (up right side) goes to the lid of the pressure tank.
Your cooling system might be similar to this one (Mercedes-Benz NG-models of 1981):

Kuehlkreislauf.jpg.jpg

Pirx
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---
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Ein Unimog-Fahrer.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#11 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-19 23:37:00

Hey,
is possible to have a crack on the engine...i don´t discard it. Yet i don´t find oil or water mixed, but the temperature goes between 80º and 100º most of the time at 95º (above the parallel line of the floor). I am learning about this Co2 test.

Thanks Pirx for the great pic. (very useful) now i know that the cooling system was correctly done. But it came too late... ;)
Today i drilled a hole on the expansion tank and connected the thin tube from the radiator on this hole. Is pressure tight. (Tomorrow i send photos). The valve (lid) exhaust tube is now going to the ground.
Went for a drive (18º outside), the temperature after warm was around 95º on a straight road with no traffic driving at 70kms/h. Sometimes almost touching the 100º. Never went on red line revolutions.
Stopped sometimes to check the temperature of the radiator, and up was very hot and down cold (something is wrong, tomorrow i check the thermostat). I see for the first time liquid coming from the exhaust tube to the ground...before i only had the upper exhaust pipe free and never i see signs of pressure (liquid) coming out.
When i parked back i could open the lid (temperature around 85º) and no pressure was there :) perfect.
The issue of the cooling pressure system, i think is solved, but the temperature is still bothering me. If the temperature is 95º on a normal road and cold day i don´t want to imagine driving with temperatures outside 40º and going up mountain or on sandy roads.
Tomorrow will boil the thermostat to see if is working good. Maybe drive some kms without thermostat to see if the radiator heats evenly.

Thanks for the help, if anyone have other opinion i am glad to read it.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#12 Beitrag von Chris_G300DT » 2019-09-20 7:56:04

Hi,
my theory is, that your cooling water Pump isn't working Well.
I have Seen this on an other 1017a before.
This Truck had also pressure in the cooling liquid, because the flow of the water was disturbed. So ist begans to Cook locally.

The Radiator was also hot at the top and cool at the bottom.

Best greetings
Chris

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#13 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-20 10:35:47

Hello Chris,

I changed the water pump 2 days ago. Today i will boil the thermostat.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#14 Beitrag von Chris_G300DT » 2019-09-20 10:59:21

Hi Anonymous,
thats good, but it doesn't matter so much, in my opinion.
Even the new Part, can have a defect.

I think, i would also check the thermostat first.
But the Water Pump in second.

The flow of the coolant might be disturbed.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#15 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-20 14:12:03

Olá,

Tested (boiled) the thermostat and it start to open around 83º.
Went for a drive without thermostat and soon the radiator was hot everywhere. The temperature of coolant around 50º and 3 kms up hill went almost to 80º.

Conclusion:
Thermostat good.
Radiator good.
Water pump good.
Oil cooler good. Yesterday i took out the tubes and tested the flow and is ok.
There is no more pressure on the expansion tank. Ok one problem solved but still would like to drive cooler. Maybe install a tropic thermostat. Anyone knows the part number so i can order.

Photo of the expansion tank with the new hole for the radiator tube.
70850951_1410676639070098_1926439599878438912_n.jpg
Now there is no pressure on the tank. The valve has the exhaust tube going down to the floor instead of going to the radiator. The one from the radiator is the new hole on the side.The valve is opening and liquid comes out from the tube.

Thanks
jenga

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#16 Beitrag von Mark86 » 2019-09-20 14:33:28

The tropic thermostat is available at Mercedes Benz dealer and with this you have a nice temperature aroung 85°C in summer, but only 75°C in Winter and the heating is a bit low...

I head the problem with a little bit to much temperature like you and the problem with to much smoke from the exhaust. After changing the injektion nozzles, the temperature ist fixed at 88°C also on summer days and the smoke problem is also solved.
Der Klügere gibt so lange nach bis er der Dümmere ist.

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#17 Beitrag von Mula Camion Sauvage » 2019-09-20 16:14:45

Hello Mark,

When i changed the head gasket, new nozzles were installed on the injectors.
I don´t like to drive on the limit of temperature...before i had a Om314 MB508D and the cruising was at 80º.

Ok the owners book says that the engine runs at 95º and can run 10 minutes at 100º but i would prefer to have a little lower temperature.

Thanks
jenga

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Re: Om 352A MB1017AF Pressure on water system.

#18 Beitrag von Mark86 » 2019-09-20 19:26:52

Mula Camion Sauvage hat geschrieben:
2019-09-20 16:14:45
Hello Mark,

When i changed the head gasket, new nozzles were installed on the injectors.
I don´t like to drive on the limit of temperature...before i had a Om314 MB508D and the cruising was at 80º.

Ok the owners book says that the engine runs at 95º and can run 10 minutes at 100º but i would prefer to have a little lower temperature.

Thanks
jenga
Is the same same...
Is the start of injektion from the fuel pump right?

Than you can cool it down with the tropical version of the thermostate...

I bought a thermostate from Febi, it works just for a few weeks... Now i have a Mercedes Benz Original Part since 4 Years, working well...
Der Klügere gibt so lange nach bis er der Dümmere ist.

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